Friday, July 31, 2009

HYK-Khnumhotep-tomb

 

HYK-Khnumhotep-tomb

In the tomb of a nobleman (Khnumhotep) who lived in the 12th dynasty, the image of people (looks like farmers) has a symbol above it.

According to this particular web page, the 12th dynasty was around 1800 BC

According to the Hyksos story, Ahmose drove them out drove them out around 1600 BC.

Depending which "expert's" web page you read, the Hyksos were there between 100 and 500 years.

Hmmm, looks like that symbol is above a goat. Could that be the Hyksos ruler?

If they are all rulers, who gets to be their subjects, the livestock?

Any these "Hyksos rulers" look like a bunch of farmers to me.

Wouldn't it be great if some 'expert' actually looked at all the hieroglyphs on that wall to see what the Egyptian authors had to say?

~

zendz

HYK-Egyptian-words

HYK-Egyptian-words

The Egyptians referred to them ( Hyksos) as the Heqa-khasut.

The term heqa-khasut is mentioned on scarabs and inscriptions.

///

A scarab had the function of a rubber stamp. It was a means to leave an imprint of a signature or logo.

a) Why would the Egyptians make scarabs for foreigners who invaded them?

b) If these invaders could write their own text, why is it only Egyptian text we find about a people identified as 'Hyksos'?

=============================

The Egyptians identified THEM as Heqa-khasut.

Americans identified THEM as rebels

Americans identified THEM as Republicans

Americans identified THEM as criminals.

c) Unless THEM is identified as foreigners, Them could be any subset of Egyptians.

=============================

d) If the word Hyksos simply translates to foreigners, then in the text of Egyptian accounts with others ... Hittites, Syrians, Akkadians, Babylonians, Greeks, Romans it would be likely for the word Heqa-khasut applied to all foreigners.

=============================

e) If the word heqa-khasut means rif-raf, undesirables, criminals then it does not identify any people from other lands.

=============================

 Khnumhotep II. A nobleman who lived in Dynasty 12

"In the tomb of Khnumhotep II at Beni Hasan is a large wall painting showing Asiatics migrating into Egypt"

///

There are dozens of not hundreds of images of people and animals on the walls of Egyptian tombs.

f) Are we to assume in every image of people and animals on the walls of the tombs that is a picture of people of people migrating to Egypt?

g) Does a hieroglyph in this image state this is a migration to Egypt, or is this a concoction of an "Egyptologist" to embellish their story?

... Duh what would the word "Asiatic" mean to Egyptians? On a map outline the people included in "Asiatics". The Egyptians could have no concept of such a word, it could only mean NON Egyptian.

=============================

"The tomb of Khnumhotep II, The term heqa-khasut is in the inscription." I've circled in red the hieroglyphic spelling of HKA-xAswt, What the Greeks would later render as "Hyksos." The term simply means "foreign rulers," which is what the Egyptians called them"

///

This image has an assembly of people with livestock

h) If the caption says foreign rulers, were all of them rulers?

i) If the caption says foreign ruler, then which one of them is THE ruler?

=============================

"Khnumhotep's servants weighing the grain" is one caption I have found..

j) Instead of picking out one symbol, how about some one listing every symbol, it's meaning and the translation of all hieroglyphs on that wall?

=============================

It is enlightening to look at the hours of WW2 films and see the trenches of naked 'Jews' with their lily white skin and have them assert:

* They are descendants of the Israelites

* The images in the tomb of Khnumhotep were Israelites.

... and while the European 'Jews' are as white as all other Europeans, the painting said to be Israelites in the tomb of Khnumhotep are NON whites... the same as the other Egyptians painted in that tomb.

 

White skin Europeans calling themselves Jews

descendants of a non white race?

"Israelites depicted in the tomb of Khnumhotep"

 

~

zendz

Thursday, July 30, 2009

HYK-Censor-Anonymous

HYK-Censor-Anonymous

While the moderator closed the discussion when I crossed examined "proofs" they offered for evidence, I will not do the same.

This blog is set up to collect all rebuttals from all sides so they do not get all mixed together, but any one who would like to respond in an UN-censored forum, can do so by joining jews-uncensored-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

I understand the "can't we all just get along" mentality to keep groupies happy.

In this Yahoo group any topics dealing with Israel/Hyksos/Egypt will NEVER be closed.

Any one is welcome to join under any e-mail and post away as long as they keep on topic.

=============================

(Their full comment here)

I am one of the Moderators of the afore-mentioned Egyptian discussion board. Let's set the record straight. A number of us cited specific, academic evidence to corroborate the reality of the Hyksos period, and in fact the debate ran on to several pages where we detailed the evidence that even moderate research can produce. Throughout it you deliberately ignored or dismissed our posts, and failed to defend his position in any manner that would stand up to scrutiny.

My fellow Moderator closed the thread for this reason, and for the negative atmosphere it was absorbing. It did not live up to the scholastic strictures of our discussion board. That's the harsh truth.
Now that I've written this comment for this blog, let's see if you are big enough to leave it in place.

=============================

I will post a reply to this here in the blog, but if they wish to continue, they will have to bring it to Jews-uncensored under any e-mail identity they chose.

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A number of us cited specific, academic evidence.

///

Thank you for your input and I will now take every bit of your "evidence" and address it.

=============================

we detailed the evidence that even moderate research can produce

///

It is only your group who had a clue of where any of these accounts come from, now I will go to the horses mouth.. the physical artifacts/text from ancient Egypt, and cross examine it.

=============================

you deliberately ignored or dismissed our posts

///

I am not the topic, I will take it line for line and any reader can determine what you offered that I ignored or dismissed.

=============================

It did not live up to the scholastic strictures of our discussion board

///

This is what is known as the blanket response, it covers every thing with out addressing any thing.

"scholastic " as in scholar... I do not look for titles, but for evidence. I think you have listed the Egyptian artifacts/text you use to arrive at your theory.

Personalities, spin words, titles are fluff, you have cited some of your text which I got to address, such as the tablet used to show the Hyksos ruled the north when the context of your quote revealed it was an Egyptian king and associates that ruled the area.

I got to point out from your own reference by the Egyptians that the Egyptians stated their king ruled the north and south of Egypt.

I will address all you wrote.

=============================

Now that I've written this comment for this blog, let's see if you are big enough to leave it in place.

///

Your comment will remain along with the challenge for you and your experts to respond in a forum where no censorship is allowed ... and personal remarks are flushed.

Thank you..

All who have some thing to say in open debate can do so by joining the uncensored group

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jews-Uncensored/

This is the group of "Anonymous" who closed the discussion and left this post here http://forum.egyptiandreams.co.uk/ , While they closed the discussion, members there are the ONLY people I have found who actually knew any thing about the actual sources of the Hyksos story.

If you do not wish to discuss/debate this issue in public, but don't want to come back here to see my latest assertions, you can join this yahoo group EncEg_Hyksos-subscribe@yahoogroups.com . When ever I update the blog with new information, members who belong to this group will get a copy of my latest remarks in their in box.

If images do not appear, let me know so I can try to correct the problem.


~

zendz

HYK-Hykso-inventers-vanish

HYK-Hykso-inventers-vanish

It looks like Mesopotamia is a label that loosely defines the north east areas of the lands mentioned in the bible. Iraq appears to be the hub.

I do not know the specifics, but I am guessing that the Egyptians had conflicts with multiple tribes from Mesopotamia before the Hyksos accounts.

I would guess the Egyptians had conflicts with multiple tribes in Canaan... and

I would guess that the Egyptians traveled to these other lands in Mesopotamia and Canaan long before the Hyksos accounts.

Camel routes, Conflict, travel, trade of Egyptians with multiple lands to the north for centuries before the accounts of the Hyksos.

Is this guess based on facts you are aware of ?

What known interaction did Egyptians have with empires/lands to the north before the accounts of the Hyksos began?

=============================

Back in the days BC, there were no patent offices. When any one saw an idea or invention, they could copy it and sell any gadget.

=============================

Archaeological discoveries have upset theories of bronze technologies. It was believed bronze originated in the Middle East, but discoveries near Ban Chiang, Thailand it existed early as 4500 bc.

This preceded the working of bronze in the Middle East by several hundred years. Bronze objects have been found in Asia Minor that date from before 3000 BC.

///

Hmmm, is it possible that technology be discovered in different parts of the world and it could not be known where any population got their own ideas?

Bronze objects were found in Asia Minor before 3000 BC.

The Hyksos accounts did not start until around 1700 BC. If the Egyptians had been interacting with any populations outside of Egypt in the previous 1300 years, they could have seen bronze making and brought it back to Egypt with them.

=============================

With the Egyptians interacting with tribes, nations, people from Mesopotamia for centuries, if others had these innovations centuries before, what makes any one believe the Egyptians got their ideas from these johnny come latelys?

Before any one could conclude the "Hyksos" invented any of these things, they better first identify who the "Hyksos" were, then go to that area of (where they came from) and provide evidence those things are found there first.

It appears these Hyksos invented all of the innovations in Asia, the Egyptians copied them, then when the Hyksos were driven out, they escaped in their flying saucer because none of the "expert Egyptologist" have any evidence where they vanished to.

 

~

zendz

Hyk-noreply-to-their-own-argument

Hyk-noreply-to-their-own-argument
 
Defendants offer evidence and when it is cross examined, they gag the discussion?
 
 
No one has any problems with the existence of the Hyksos except you.
This thread is closed. This is a bunch of alternative drivel and as I have mentioned this is not the board to do this.
///
Here they use the "evidence" found proves the Hyksos existed in those areas.
 
When I asked them "HYK-Whos-dump-is-it " .. when I showed the Egyptians were there centuries before and centuries after the supposed Hyksos and asked how they determined the remains belonged to the Hyksos,  the moderator closed the thread.
 
If they would use those artifacts to prove the Hyksos were there, wouldn't it be nice for them to give their evidence how they determined those finds were put there by the Hyksos?
 
Any way, I think I got all the major references they use to produce their hyksos story, it will give me places to search.
===============

 

~

zendz

HYK-Whos-dump-is-it

HYK-Whos-dump-is-it

If you don't like the time line of this guy's web page, use your own, it will come out the same.

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The Old Kingdom 1st Dynasty 3I00 - 2890 BC

Narmer, Aha, Djer, Djet, Den, Anedjib, Semerkhet...

=============================

The Second Intermediate Period

15th Dynasty 1650-1550 BC

Depending on what "expert's" web page you look at, the Hyksos started coming to Egypt.. let's be nice and say 1700 BC

=============================

3100 BC to 1700 BC = 1,400 years Egyptians were hanging out in Egypt before the Hyksos invaded.

=============================

18th Dynasty 1550-1295 BC

Ahmose drove out the Hyksos .. say 1290 BC

That would leave 1290 years BC before the year zero

=============================

a) Egyptians lived there 1400 years before the Hyksos

b) Egyptian population lived there and were ruled by the Hyksos for 200 years

or

b) Hyksos drove the Egyptians out and lived there by themselves for 200 years.

c) Egyptians lived there for an additional 1290 years BC

Being very conservative, let's just say the Egyptian population was booted out and the Hykso had the land all to themselves.. and being very conservative, let's say the Egyptians only lived in the north of Egypt 2000 years.

In this hypothetical story the Egyptians would have lived there 1400 years before the Hyksos and 600 years after they were dispersed.

Now let's go to the ruins and begin our dig, when you start finding artifacts of populations that lived in that area for 2000 years (Egyptians long before and long after) how you gonna tell who's trash/artifacts you are digging up?

=============================

You can look at dozens of web pages who copy stuff out of the books of the "experts" and find they may disagree by centuries, but any numbers you use as your variables, the Egyptians were there centuries before and after the "Hyksos".

Looks like the most of those artifacts would have belonged to the Egyptians and if the Egyptians lived their in the Hyksos period, any artifacts of any Hyksos would not have amounted to a pile of beans.

So why do "Egyptologist" label the stuff they find in that dump/dig as Hyksos artifacts... you tell me.

 

~

zendz

HYK-Hyksos-adopt-Egyptian-Language

HYK-Hyksos-adopt-Egyptian-Language

One wrote:

The earlier Hyksos - as mentioned by kmt-sesh - referred to themselves as heqa khasut.

///

So far I have not seen any ancient text in which the hykos were supposed to have written.

What I have seen so far is from the fingers/perspective of Egyptian writers

1 What hieroglyph text of the hyksos do you refer to ?

====================

I have not seen invaders take control of a language and adopt the language of the people.

When the Greeks conquered Egypt, Greek text is found through out ancient Egypt.

When the Romans conquered Egypt, Latin text is found through out Egypt.

Isn't it funny how the hyksos "adopted" the language of the Egyptians, were driven out and where ever they returned, there is not any massive amounts of hieroglyphic text found in the place they went to

NOR is there any ancient text in Canaan, Syria, Jordan, Turkey, Saudi, Iran or Iraq from any people who told how they / their ancestors were driven out of Egypt?

Are we to believe some 'advanced' population invaded Egypt and they had no language of their own?

Are we to believe in the century.. centuries what ever time they were there, they did not write any text about the events that was going on?

Other than the possibility that all the players were Egyptians, why wouldn't these invading rulers write any thing about themselves in their own language or the language of the Egyptians?

 

 

~

zendz

Wednesday, July 29, 2009

HYK-COMMON-NOUNS

HYK-COMMON-NOUNS

Nouns name people, places, and things.

Every noun can further be classified as COMMON or PROPER

A proper noun excludes those who do not belong to it.

A common noun includes any and all

The girls <> Susie

The team <> the quarter back

The foreigners <> the French

The foreigners <> the Spanish

The foreigners <> the Germans

The listings on the left are abstract, they could be any or all.

The listings on the right are EXCLUSIVE... they exclude all that does not come under the umbrella of that proper noun.

DIFFERENT SOURCES OF COMMON NOUNS

FROM DIFFERENT TIMES AND PLACES

Imagine taking text written in different times of history and assuming the unidentified group is always the group being spoken about.

* The British fought against their Enemy in a battle in the sea.

* The British fought against their enemy in France,

* The British fought against their enemy in Germany.

If such text were found in different location in multiple locations and decades apart in time, would it be correct to assume THE COMMON NOUN "THEIR ENEMY" is always identifying the same people?

Well the British fought against the Spanish, French, Germans ... in different places and different periods of history.

ENEMY, FOREIGNERS, STRANGERS .. COMMON NOUNS

So if Egyptian text was found that stated foreign forces attacked different locations ... and this text were found in different areas of Egypt, in different time periods, those foreigners could have been an array of different lands.

As for the 'Hyksos' story, these unidentified invaders are ONLY shown to have attacked a small area .. one city in northern Egypt.

The Egyptians encountered the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Persians, the Syrians, The Hittites, the Greeks and the Romans... ALL foreigners !

When these foreign empires actually ruled northern Egypt, they ruled ALL cities of northern Egypt.

Foreign kings ruled northern Egypt... NO such information in Egypt

Foreigners did attack areas/cities that were a trivial fraction of northern Egypt at different times.. and these foreigners were not identified.

Foreigner = Hyksos.. ho ho. Foreigners = any tribes / nations outside of Egypt

By this Hyksos definition:

Hyksos only means NON Egyptian and NO specific tribe or nation.

Hyksos invaders of different areas in different times = an array of non Egyptians who invaded Egypt at different times.

The account found in Ahmose's tomb is little more than the attack of Pancho Villa who ran across the border and attacked one city. The attack of these unidentified foreigners did continue for 3 years, but it did not spread through out the vast empire of northern Egypt.

Instead of foreigners who attacked localized cities, foreigners who ruled northern Egypt were such as Greeks, Romans, Assyrians, Babylonians.

All foreign rulers who did rule northern Egypt

The Egyptian word 'Hyksos' does not identify a people by the name of Hyksos.

The Egyptian word 'Hyksos' just means NON Egyptians and there were Hyksos from multiple nations.

 

~

zendz

HYK-READ-A-BOOK

HYK-READ-A-BOOK

When I asked for specific ancient text that identifies Hyksos as rulers of Egypt I got this response

///

I don't (need to) say this quickly, but: read a book.

Something good. By an Egyptologist or so.

You could use some basic knowledge, before claiming 2 centuries of kinda smart people to be idiots.

=============================

The difference today and the past is now authors do not have a bully pulpit. People can get on the internet and cross examine assertions.

I like to play investigator where I ask people who appear to have knowledge about the topics at hand.

Because we share the same interest, we are glad to present any knowledge we have.

For example if the topic was the connection to the Israelites to the Egyptians according to the bible...

IF I had already read and found that information, I would not tell any one to go read it and find it.

IF any I talk to have information, IF they have seen the information I seek in a book.. they not only give the name of the book and author BUT they also give the exact information for the topic at hand.

As for any one being right based on them being a scholar, Egyptologist, anthropologist, archeologist, Dr, Professor ... I have addressed the concept of things being believable based on titles.

In universities people learn thousands of different things in dozens of different courses.

Of the thousands of things they may have learned, unless it addresses the question at hand it is a moot point.

IF any expert has the answer for the question at hand, there need be no hot air about his education, just a response to the question being asked.

If the question at hand was about the connection of Israelites to Egyptians

* I would show the specific book, chapter and verses which would prove there was no one but Egyptians for the 52 grandsons of Israel to produce their children with.

* I would show the specific book, chapter and verses where Israelites were still producing children with Egyptians in the Exodus.

* I would show the specific book, chapter and verses where the Israelite king married an Egyptian.

* I would show the specific book, chapter and verses where an Israelite took an Egyptian slave to produce his grandchildren

* I would show the specific book, chapter and verses where the Israelites who escaped the Babylonians fled to Egypt and settled.

Read this, read that? If any one has actually read a book where the author gives evidence of Hyksos ruling Egypt, they would site the evidence that they have read themselves.

In Egyptology it is fun to read what some author wrote.. BUT in the modern day with computers that reach around the world, we can check the source of the author's stories.

If any one claims they have read the information I seek in the book, they wouldn't tell me to read a book.. thousands of them until I got lucky and found such information.

IF any one of them have read a book with the information I seek, they would quote the information I seek.

It does not matter if it is in a book or on a web page...

IF any one is aware of any ancient Egyptian text which states they were ruled by Hyksos ... then be specific and quote that information.

Thus far, in all of the book readers I have encountered, no one has shown me:

* Text written by Egyptians or Hyksos IN the time the Hyksos were supposed to have been there.

* Text stating the Hyksos ruled Egypt.

What we do know about book readers who have interest in such topics, IF/WHEN they do find specific information as proof of some assertion, they don't tell others to read books till they find it, they do quickly quote that specific information.

To those who tell me to go read a book, my question is

* Have you read the information I seek, yourself?

* If so, produce it.

=============================

A modern day book would only be a detour that would show where the ancient text exists.

Those who tell you to go read a book are ignorant of such information themselves, so instead of admitting they are unaware of any such information, they cover it up by telling you to go read a book.

The information I seek will not be found in any book of any modern day experts, but if it exists, it will be in the text of the ancient Egyptians.

IF any one is aware of any ancient Egyptian text, WRITTEN IN THE TIME WHEN THE HYKSOS WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE RULED, that states Hyksos ruled Egypt, show me the Egyptian text, do not give me the read a book loop hole.

As far as any thing being fact because some 'expert' wrote/said it, this is the response to such hot air  http://hyksos-hoax.blogspot.com/2009/07/hyk-archeologist-say.html

~

zendz

Tuesday, July 28, 2009

HYK-Ahmose- autobiography

Exhibit: Ahmose son of Ebana, - autobiography

The information here comes from a heiroglyph in the tomb of Ahmose. It is located in El-kab on the west side of the Nile, south of the valley of The Valley of the Kings.

Nubians/Cushite information is irrelative. The point is to establish foreign rulers of Egypt "THAT CAME FROM CANAAN"Unless there is some thing in the Nubin segments that deal with the "Hyksos" that is a moot point

Upper/Lower Egypt is confusing. I will used search and replace upper with south and lower with north

Let's take one of your links at a time.

=============================

From the page you gave: Ahmose son of Ebana, - autobiography

I have numbered the lines of the translation for referenceAhmose, son of Ebana, was an officer in the Egyptian army during the end of the 17th Dynasty to the beginning of the 18th Dynasty. He originally came from Elkab in Southern Egypt, he decided to follow in the footsteps of his father, Baba, and become a soldier (Baba served under Seqenenre Tao II in the early campaigns against the Hyksos). Ahmose spent most of his military life serving aboard the king's fleet - he was to fight at Avaris, at Sharuhen in Palestine and in Nubia during the service of Ahmose I (Ahmose son of Ebana was to receive many honours for his bravery in battle from the king). Ahmose left the accounts of battles in his tomb,
0001 'I rest in the tomb which I have made'

His career stretched from the reigns of Seqenenre Tao II to Tuthmosis I.
The Crew Commander Ahmose son of Abana.' the justified; he says.

0002 I speak to you, all people. I let you know what
0003 favours came to me. I have been rewarded with gold
0004 seven times in the sight of the whole land, with
0005 male and female slaves as well. I have been
0006 endowed with very many fields. The name of the
0007 brave man is in that which he has done; it will
0008 not perish in the land forever.

HE SPEAKS THE FOLLOWING

0009 I grew up in the town of Nekheb, my father being a
0010 soldier of the King of Southern and Northern
0011 Egypt, Segenenre, the justified. Baba son of
0012 Reonet was his name. I became a soldier in his
0013 stead on the ship "The Wild Bull" in the time of
0014 the Lord of the Two Lands, Nebpehtire, the
0015 justified. I was a youth who had not married; I
0016 slept in . .

EXPULSION OF THE HYKSOS

0017 Now when I had established a household, I was
0018 taken to the ship "Northern", because I was brave.
0019 I followed the sovereign on foot when he rode
0020 about on his chariot.
0021 When the town of Avaris was besieged, I fought
0022 bravely on foot in his majesty's presence.
0023 Thereupon I was appointed to the ship "Rising in
0024 Memphis." Then there was fighting on the water in
0025 "Pjedku" of Avaris. I made a seizure and carried
0026 off a hand. When it was reported to the royal
0027 herald the gold of valour was given to me.
0028 Then they fought again in this place; I again made
0029 a seizure there and carried off a hand.
0030 Then I was given the gold of valour once again.
0031 Then there was fighting in Egypt to the south of
0032 this town. and I carried off a man as a living
0033 captive. I went down into the water-for he was
0034 captured on the city side-and crossed the water
0035 carrying him. When it was reported to the royal
0036 herald I was rewarded with gold once more.
0037 Then Avaris was despoiled, and I brought spoil
0038 from there: one man, three women; total, four
0039 persons. His majesty gave them to me as slaves.
0040 Then Sharahen was besieged for three years. His
0041 majesty despoiled it and I brought spoil from it:
0042 two women and a hand. Then the gold of valour was
0043 given me, and my captives were given to me as
0044 slaves.

DESTRUCTION OF THE REBELS AATA AND TETIAN

0045 Then Aata came to the South. His fate brought on
0046 his doom. The gods of Southern Egypt grasped him.
0047 He was found by his majesty at Tent-taa. His
0048 majesty carried him off as a living captive, and
0049 all his people as booty. I brought two young
0050 warriors as captives from the ship of Aata. Then I
0051 was given five persons and portions of land
0052 amounting to five arurae in my town. The same was
0053 done for the whole crew.
0054 Then came that foe named Tetian. He had gathered
0055 the malcontents to himself. His majesty slew him;
0056 his troop was wiped out. Then I was given three
0057 persons and five arurae of land in my town.

SYRIAN CAMPAIGN OF KING THUTMOSE I

0058 After this (his majesty) proceeded to Retjenu, to
0059 vent his wrath throughout the lands. When his
0060 majesty reached Nahrin, his majesty found that foe
0061 marshalling troops. Then his majesty made a great
0062 slaughter of them. Countless were the living
0063 captives which his majesty brought back from his
0064 victories. Now I was in the van of our troops, and
0065 his majesty saw my valour. I brought a chariot,
0066 its horse, and him who was on it as a living
0067 captive. When they were presented to his majesty,
0068 I was rewarded with gold once again.
0069 I have grown old; I have reached old age. Favoured
0070 as before, and loved [by my lord], I [rest] in the
0071 tomb that I myself made.

A list of people and places in the context below

Aata - a rebel from Nubia ???

Abana - mother of Ahmose.

Ahmose - Also the name of one of the pharaohs

Ahmose - military man who served several kings.

Avaris - capital of the kingdom based in the Delta.

Avaris - In ancient egyptian the name is written Hutweret.Avaris may be a later Greek version of the name.

Baba - Father of Ahmose (military man)

Ebana - mother of Ahmose (military man)Elkab - City in the south of Egypt

Hyksos - modern name for the people from Avaris (Hutweret)

Nahrin - Name for Mesopotamia

Nebpehtire - other name for Pharaoh Ahmose (pharaohs had up to 5 different names)

Nekheb - City near Elkab in the South

Nubia - Modern term for the country to the south of EgyptNubin ????

Pjedku - Padjedku was the name of a canal in Avaris

Pjedku - named in the auto biography of Ahmose son of Ebana

Reonet - grandmother of Ahmose

Retjenu - area in the middle east

Seqenenre - Ruler of Thebes

Sharuhen - A fort / settlement in the middle east.

Tetian - Nubian rebel I think

Thutmose - Tuthmosis name of 4 different pharaohs



~

zendz

Monday, July 27, 2009

HYK-Ahmose-Hyksos-image

HYK-Ahmose-Hyksos-image
 
Where do people get info for their web sites, copy it off some one else's web sites.
I first saw this image in winy-pedia and I began to ask where the actual image exists.
It is supposed to be a picture of Amose driving out the Hyksos... winy-pedia removed the image from their page, but it still exists here:
 
 
 
You have a picture of a chariot with the information that the Hyksos were involved in that picture.
 
Where is this image located in Egypt or is it just something some one created and presented it as an Egyptian painting?
=====
 
The trick is to create a fake image or copy an actual image from a wall in Egypt and add false information to it.
 
Even in the best protected tombs, there is usually fading of paint in some areas and cracking of paint. This image of Ahmose driving out the Hyksos, looks like it is fresh off photo shop... not a bit of aging any where?
====
 
Since I started asking where these original pictures were wikipedia authors started deleting their images of the Hyksos? ( depicts Ahmose I striking down a Hyksos soldier now missing here ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmose_I
 
They still have the thumb nail here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos, but click on it and the full image is gone.... it now says "This image was moved to Wikimedia Commons from en.wikipedia using a bot script. All source information is still present. It requires review. Additionally, there may be errors in any or all of the information fields; information on this image should not be considered reliable and the image should not be used until it has been reviewed and any needed corrections have been made"
 
Even IF The image exists on a wall in Egypt, there would have to be hieroglyphs that use the term Hyksos in the caption.... where is it?

 

~

zendz

HYK-Why Hyksos?

Why Hyksos?

There are so many empires out of the north east area of the lands mentioned in the bible... India, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Syria .. I guess I will use the word Mesopotamia... as the massive area where all of these empires existed.

While the "experts" argue when the Hyksos were in Egypt, we can look at the dynasties of Egypt and know..

NO matter which "Expert" is right (if any), we know that Egypt existed centuries BEFORE and centuries AFTER the supposed Hyksos came to Egypt.

We know that bronze, cross bows.. we know that these innovations existed through out Mesopotamia through out multiple empires these things were being used.

Why would any one attribute any innovations in Egypt to the Hyksos, when the Egyptians had been trading, in wars and interacting with an array of Mesopotamia empires centuries before the supposed Hyksos ever got there?

Why would any one attribute any invention to the Hyksos when other Mesopotamia more well known, greater empires had been using them for centuries.

*  The innovations attributed to the Hyksos never existed in Mesopotamia until the Hyksos created them all.

*  The innovations attributed to the Hyksos existed through out Mesopotamia for centuries before the Hyksos were supposed to enter Egypt.

*  The Egyptians were interacting with an array of Mesopotamia empires can could have got their methods from any of them.

 

With the vast array of empires Egypt had interacted with for centuries, why would any one attribute any inventions/innovations to a minor group out of the massive Mesopotamia empire?

The difference I am aware of, there are actually Egyptian records of their encounters with Mesopotamia empires, Hittites and Canaanites.

 

~

zendz

Saturday, July 25, 2009

HYK-Translation-01

 

HYK-Translation-01

Know this: When any one writes any information about events that took place in ancient Egypt,

* If they can't site the source and location, they are just mimicking the words of some one else.

* If they can site the source and location (and can not read that language), they are trusting some author, that is what that ancient text says.

* If you can contact an Egyptologist (that can read the ancient language) and even they can not give the source and location of that information is written, odds are that information is little more than a myth of some one's imagination. Once any such myth is accepted and repeated, it snow balls and becomes another "FACT" about ancient Egypt.

=============================

Before we can consider the validity of any translation, I suppose we should see if that information is a translation of some actual text or if the translation is nothing more than the imagination of the translators.

REFERENCES ADDED TO CENTURIES OLD TEXT.

It does not matter if you are talking about Latin, Hindu, Islamic books, the bible/torah or other books of times past, odds are the original text was not divided into paragraphs, had no punctuation or other references.

Many people are unaware, but those who put what is called the bible together, had an array of text to chose from to select which would go into their composite.. the bible.

In web pages we can read such information as "The Hyksos capital was located at Avaris (modern Tell ad-Dab'a)"

* Those authors would know this because they found artifacts that they can prove were made by the Hyksos (good luck)

* Those authors know this because they are puppeting some thing they got from some one else.

* Those authors know this because they actually know an ancient source where this information is written.

References are added to large amounts of text to make things easy to find. In the majority cases of all hieroglyphic text, there are very few sources that would compose 20 pages of type written text.

The validity of any information in any religious text is a moot point here. The point is IF ANY INFORMATION IS IN AN ANCIENT TEXT, and an author is aware of it, they can cite the exact location of that information.

=============================

a) "The Hyksos capital was located at Avaris (modern Tell ad-Dab'a)"

b) "The city of David and Jerusalem are the same city"

Some one author about accounts would write something like this

2 Samuel 5:6 "The city of David and Jerusalem are the same city"

Source, specific location in that source. Information given

Tomb of Tut, wall on the west side, 2nd hieroglyph down ... Information given

Turin King's list, 7th line down, The Hyksos capital was located at Avaris

IF any actual information exists about the Hyksos or any other topic in ancient hieroglyphs, the author who writes that information can identify the source and the specific location in that source where that information is given.

A great series of text books based on facts would be one that took specific sources.. a specific stone, wall, papyrus, then took the original text line for line and placed the equivalent words below each line of hieroglyphs kind of an official bible of hieroglyphic text.

Other Egyptologist who wrote on topics, could then give the actual reference to which source and location of that information.

=============================

STANDARDIZED REFERENCES

If people in multiple locations were to create references to any text, there would be many reference systems.

To make the study of Egyptology a universal media where all would be looking at the same thing, talking about the same thing, there would have to be a standardized reference system

I would give such an honor to a college in Egypt. All universities around the world would coordinate their ideas and research with the hub.

The object would be to create one standardized reference encyclopedia of hieroglyphic text.

There would be many considerations in the creation of a standardized encyclopedia.

 

~

zendz

Friday, July 24, 2009

HYK-Translation-00

HYK-Translation-00

The problems with the translation of ancient languages are:

a) No different than us, there were scribes who had poor hand writing.

b) They had no spell checkers or proof readers to go over their work.

c) They never used lined paper and many times it gets so bad it is hard to tell what, belongs on what line.

d) There is great profit in creating forgeries and any documents of potential value are to be suspected as forgeries.

e) When any scribe writes about events that took place centuries before they were born, then they are doing no more than repeating hearsay. (If any one ever played the gossip game in grade school, where a message is given to the first kid and whispered into the ear of the next... by the time it gets to the last kid it is completely perverted.)

f) There are zealots who embellish information to the actual text to promote their own importance.

g) After some authority with status makes some assertion, few will cross examine their work and most will just jump on the band wagon.

h) After an idea is accepted, the masses will not go to the original source, but they will puppet what those of authority have said.

=============================

THE MAKE BELIEVE HIEROGLYPH

My computer does not type hieroglyphs, nor can I read them, but for this story, you can pretend you are looking at a papyrus brought from Egypt by Donald Duck.

The first copy is what it looked like when it was written in 2,500 BC. The text was written right to left. As the years passed by, it began to wrinkle and get damaged.

Because the lines were not straight, an expert made an exact copy of the original and placed the words on parallel lines.

When Donald Duck got the papyrus, there were pieces missing. When he returned to France, he sold the papyrus to a museum. The museum put it together like a picture puzzle and photographed the restoration. That restoration is now on the official museum web site.

When any author has facts to point out about the papyrus, they need not give links to web authors who copy and parrot other web authors. The author can point to the image of the original papyrus and make their points.

* If the author says that a pharaoh is mentioned in this text, they can point to the exact line and highlight that ancient word with some colored text.

The text in my example is actual text I copied from a historic account. I reversed it to read right to left, then I changed the font to funny characters (my mock hieroglyphics).

In the text, it mentions a woman, the city of Raamses, a chariot and other things.

If I actually knew what I was doing and I was making a report/web page on the DDuck papyrus, I would say

The DDuck papyrus is in the FrenchFry Museum.

An image of the actual papyrus is here:

Pharaoh gave Joe the daughter of a priest on line 9-10

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In every claim of information ancient text reveals.. IF the text does reveal that information:

a) State the information.

b) Tell where the original text exists today

c) Show an image of that text

d) Give the exact line number where that excerpt is found.

IF any translator actually knows the meanings of words that exist in any ancient text, they could copy the original text line by line and under each line of ancient text, they would place the translation each word.

Of course once a translator placed the meaning of the ancient text below each line, the "experts interpretation" would no longer be needed.

Each person could determine for themselves, what information any ancient text held.

=============================

As far as I have been able to find out, there is not 10 sources of ancient from all of Egypt that mentions any such people as Hyksos.

I have been wrong, many times in the past. I will be glad to publish all the information on thousands of web sites about the Hyksos.

If there are actually any first hand observers who have seen original Egyptian text that reveals information about Hyksos, humor me and show me the image of the original piece in a museum or wall of an Egyptian structure, then show me the lines in the original text that states that web information.

Thanks Sam

 

~

zendz

Wednesday, July 22, 2009

HYK-The-Turin-King-List-b

HYK- The -Turin-King-List-b

 
The "King's list" that is the basis for the Hyksos is broken into over 160 fragments and a whole bunch of pieces missing.
It is from these scraps that hundreds of pages are written.. FROM INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THESE SHREDS?
 
 
If they really want to share the information to the world, why wouldn't they copy the scraps they have pieced together, and replace the foreign characters/words, with the words of the language they are translating it to?
 
In this hypothetical example the parchment would be a copy of the original they have pieced together and the original text would be replaced with words of the language the papyrus was being translated to. (i.e. the hieroglyph for the word pharaoh would be replaced with the English word as in this example).
 
The same areas / words would be missing. Why don't these "archeologist/translators" let you see it in your language? Well because they would lose their usefulness and people could make up their own mind, what information does exist in that text.
 
 
 

~

zendz

HYK-Translation-a

HYK-Translation-a
 
Before even thinking about translation, consider the differences in European and ancient middle east languages.
 
Our language ---->
And he made a porch of pillars; the length
thereof was fifty cubits and the breadth
thereof thirty cubits and the porch was
before them and the other pillars and the
thick beam were before them Then he made a
porch for the throne where he might judge
even the porch of judgment and it was covered
with cedar from one side of the floor to the
other And his house where he dwelt had
another court within the porch which was of
the like work Solomon made also an house for
Pharaoh's daughter whom he had taken to wife
like unto this porch All these were of costly
stones according to the measures of hewed
stones sawed with saws within and without
even from the foundation unto the coping and
so on the outside toward the great court.
========================
 
Even if some one had the complete ancient text in tact, the translator needs to read right to left.
 
<--- Ancient languages
length the pillars; of porch a made he And
breadth the and cubits fifty was thereof
was porch the and cubits thirty thereof
the and pillars other the and them before
a made he Then them before were beam thick
judge might he where throne the for porch
covered was it and judgment of porch the even
the to floor the of side one from cedar with
had dwelt he where house his And other
of was which porch the within court another
for house an also made Solomon work like the
wife to taken had he whom daughter Pharaoh's
costly of were these All porch this unto like
hewed of measures the to according stones
without and within saws with sawed stones
and coping the unto foundation the from even
court great the toward outside the on so
 
NOW consider the ancient text crumbling with large segments missing.

~

zendz

HYK- The -Turin-King-List-a

HYK- The -Turin-King-List-a

The back bone of the assertion that a list of Hyksos Kings was found in a papyrus in Egypt. It is called The Turin Kings List... Turin? Because it is in Turin Italy I guess.

=============================

1a) The papyrus was found by the Italian Bernardino Drovetti.

///

In a contradiction the papyrus WAS PURCHASED BY DROVETTI (NOT FOUND BY HIM)

" Although a list of Egyptian kings was recorded by Manetho, a historian writing in Greek in the 3rd century BCE, the most comprehensive and reliable such document, which dates from the reign of Ramesses II (12th century BCE) was purchased by Bernadino Drovetti, an Italian adventurer of the early 19th century. The papyrus scroll was then almost perfectly preserved, but after Drovetti threw it into a box and took it back to Europe, where he sold it the king of Sardinia, it was nothing but a pile of jumbled fragments.

=============================

1b) Found in 1820 at Luxor.

Found WHERE !!!

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1c) It was acquired in 1824 by the Egyptian Museum in Italy.

In the chain of events described Bernadino Drovetti purchased, not found it, then he sold it to the King of Sardinia.

It is not stated here who the Italy museum acquired it from or who Drovetti bought it from in the first place.

=============================

1d) When unpacking the box in which it had been transported to Italy, it had disintegrated into small fragments.

So this guy paid cash for the papyrus and just threw it in a box?

=============================

1e) Jean-Francois Champollion, examining it, could recognize only some of the larger fragments containing royal names, and produced a drawing of what he could decipher.

///

How did Champollion determine any names were royal?

=============================

1f) Gustav Seyffarth re-examined the fragments, some only 1 square centimeter in size, and made a more complete reconstruction of the papyrus based only on the papyrus fibers, as he could not yet determine the meaning of the hieratic characters.

=============================

1g) Jens Peter Lauth, which largely confirmed the Seyffarth reconstruction. However, approximately 50% of the reconstructed area remains missing.

=============================

1h) This papyrus as presently constituted is 1.7 m long and 0.41 m high, broken into over 160 fragments.

=============================

1i) The beginning and ending of the list, however, are now lost;

=============================

1j) There is no introduction, and the list does not continue after the 17th Dynasty.

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1k) The fact that the back of an older papyrus was used may indicate that the list was not of great formal importance to the writer.

=============================

1l) The papyrus lists the names of rulers, the lengths of reigns in years, and months and days for individual kings

///

* Show us every name that can be identified

* Show the text on the papyrus that identifies them as kings.

=============================

1m) The list includes the names of ephemeral rulers or those ruling over small territories that may be un mentioned in other sources.

* If these names are not identified as rulers in the papyrus or in any other source, what information indicates they were rulers in the first place?

=============================

1n) the papyrus estimated at 1.7m long and 0.41m high. 1.7 meters = 66 inches, .41 m = 16 inches.

=============================

1o) it contains a list of gods, demi-gods, spirits, mythical spirits

* Name the gods and spirits listed.

=============================

1p) an unknown scribe used the verso to write down this list of kings.

verso = opposite side.

* An unknown scribe wrote this text over 300 years after the Hyksos were gone and

* An unknown seller sold the scroll to Drovetti who

* Sold it to the king of Sardinia and some how

* The Italy museum acquired it.

=============================

The fact that the list was scribbled on the back of an older papyrus shows the papyrus was of no great importance to the writer.

=============================

1q) What evidence this papyrus came from Egypt in the first place?

Countries guard their ancient artifacts as treasures. To get ancient artifacts out of these countries, there is a process of applying for permits.

* Is there any official Egyptian records that Bernardino Drovetti applied for and received a permit to take this artifact out of Egypt?

 

 

~

zendz

Tuesday, July 21, 2009

HYK-Hyksos Kings

HYK-Hyksos Kings

Below is a list of "Hyksos Kings" from various web sites.

We know that the bulk of all such web pages are copies and revisions of other's web pages.

Assuming some where along the line:

* Some "archeologist" was actually looking at ancient text in Egypt

* Then translated the ancient text they were looking at into your language.

a) Find the actual original this information was translated from.

b) Tell us where the original is today

c) Do NOT select an excerpt from the original BUT translate the whole original text, with out leaving a word out.

d) Show in each text of each king where (e) they are identified as kings and (f) where they are identified as Hyksos.

g) What language is the text written... Heiroglyphs, Cuneiform .. what?

I will add or remove names from this list of "Hyksos kings" if and when I find any "archeologist" who can show where the original ancient text is.


Hyksos King
Annas
Apachnan
Apophis
Archles
Assis
Beon
Bnon
Khamudi
Khyan
Pachnan
Regnal
Sakir-Har
Salitis
Staan

~


zendz

HYK-Bullae-Scarab

HYK-Bullae-Scarab

Bullae : Scarab / seal

It appears that a Scarab and a Bullae serve the same purpose.

=============================

From "The Jewish Encyclopedia"

In a Jerusalem excavations from the 10th century.. above a plaster floor were found a group of pottery vessels, some of unique forms, bronze and iron arrowheads, and 50 clay bullae which had been baked by the fire of the destruction in 586 B.C.E., most of them with readable names, for example, "(belonging) to Benayahu son of Hoshayahu" . and "Gemaryahu son of Shaphan,"

=============================

From "The Jewish Encyclopedia"

 

The Babylonian and Persian Periods (586–333 B.C.E.) A collection of 65 clay sealings (bullae) and two seals were found in the vicinity of Jerusalem. The precise circumstances of the discovery are unknown, but it is evident that they belonged to an archive. Among the sealings are impressions of the seals of the Persian province of Judea (Yehud), of "Elnathan the Governor," "Jeremai the Scribe" and numerous private seals. One of the two seals bears the name of the province and the other reads: "Belonging to Shlomith maidservant of Elnathan the Governor.

=============================

The precise circumstances of the discovery are unknown?

Can you believe it, little pieces of clay that can be forged by any one with no way to determine if it is legitimate or forged.. little pieces of clay that can be sold for tens of thousands of dollars... AND IT IS NOT KNOWN WHO, WHEN, EXACTLY WHERE THESE PIECES WERE FOUND?

A collection of 65 priceless bullae just pop up in a museum and no one has a clue how they got there or where they came from... peeee U. It doesn't seem to pass the smell test.

=============================

Bullae or Scarab which just happened to belong to some ancient authority of great importance... found where?

If these small items did belong to an ancient of great importance, we might first ask WHERE were they found.

If they found a seal that belonged to King Solomon:

a) We could look in that place and assume that is where Solomon lived.

b) If it were found in an area in a village where the commoners lived, we could guess that Solomon was there on a visit, stubbed his toe and the seal fell out of his pocket.

If any piece said to have belonged to an ancient of great importance and it is found in an place where they did not live, the red flags are raised.

A Scarab belonging to a Hyksos king named Apophis or A bullae belonging to King Hezekiah ... What are the odds of finding any of their personal items in an excavation of residents of the common people?

If we can locate where a famous ancient lived or where they were buried, it is ONLY in that precise location where any of their personal belongings could possibly be found.

Bullae-Scarab, between the size of a tennis ball and a walnut shell divided in half. Can you imagine some ancient king misplacing their seal and 4000 years later some one finding it 1 ... 5 ... 10 miles away from where that king lived?

It is essential to know exactly where a piece was found to determine if there is even the slightest possibility that it belonged to some ancient ruler.

If some one claims to have found the pillow of King Tut, that is the place he lived or the place he was buried, or it is not the pillow of Tut at all.

If it is attributed to some important person, in a place they did not live, your question is what are the chances the guy dropped the object a mile or 10 miles from where they lived ... then some guy dug it up under a pile of dirt, 4000 years later?

Some 'archeologist' dug up a Scarab belonging to a Hyksos king named Apophis. If it was found in an area where the commoners lived then it is not property lost by an ancient ruler !

~

zendz

Sunday, July 19, 2009

HYK-Apophis-Scarab-trail-b

HYK-Apophis-Scarab-trail-b

Ancient Hebrews top

Bottom 'Modern Hebrews'

Is there any ancient Hebrew text found in Egypt? Did God write the 10 commandments in Hebrews, Hieroglyphs or what?

=============================

Cuneiform top. This is what the Amarna letters were written in

Hieroglyphics bottom

If the Israelites were in Egypt, why didn't they or the Egyptians write any thing about them?

=============================

Hieroglyphs top left Scarab that identified a Hyksos king Apophis middle Cuneiform right

Modern Hebrews left Ancient Hebrews bottom right

Which text is the same as on the scarab that identifies the Hyksos king Apophis?

* We often hear names like Apophis. Is this guy or any of his relatives ever identified as Hyksos? or is this an assumption ?

* Show us the word Apophis on the scarab

* In Goggle search, it is written there are hundreds of thousands of scarabs in Egypt and through out the middle east. There were millions of people, do you suppose they all had different names?

* It appears that scarabs were a means of identification but they were not exclusive to the rich. They were as common as dirt. They are found every where. On a program called "The naked archeologist" the guy told how such fakes are with out end.

* Authentic or fake scarabs are common through out the middle east.

Does this particular scarab identify this guy as a king?

Does this particular scarab identify this guy as a Hyksos?

* Where was this scarab found, in a palace or in the ground where the commoners lived?

* What is this scarab made of and how hard would it be to create a fake?

* Who found it? When exactly did they find it?

* In Egypt archeologist are not allowed to take ancient artifacts out of the country with out a permit. It keeps down the theft of ancient artifacts and slows down forgers. Did any one file an application with any Egyptian authorities and get a permit to remove it from Egypt?


~

zendz

HYK-Apophis-Scarab-trail-a

HYK-Apophis-Scarab-trail-a

Scarab : Emblem/seal

A method of identifying property, as protection against theft, to mark the clay stoppers of oil and wine jars or the strip with which packaged goods were bound.

Seals were used as signatures on clay-tablet inscriptions. In Egypt, seals were used to sign papyrus scrolls. Ancient seals are of great value.

Scarab seals, which were small Egyptian seals generally made of amethyst, carnelian, or faience. They were generally shaped to resemble the sacred scarabaeus beetle of Egypt, often including legs around the perimeter. The base was level and engraved with hieroglyphs representing the names of kings, officials, and individuals; titles, blessings, and incantations.

Scaraboid seals are not carved with the beetle shape on their backs or legs along the perimeter. They were used mostly for signature or to mark possessions and were common in Syria

When doing a Google search for "the son of Re Apophis", I received over 1000 web pages. This is a hint of how many times people copy stuff from other pages and paste it in their own.

When I asked for evidence that any people identified as Hyksos were ever in Egypt, some one pasted a page that pointed to a Scarab that identified a Hyksos king.

The Scarab is held in the Museum of fine arts in Boston (U.S.A), so I went to their site, did a search for Apophis and was directed to this web page.

http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=Apophis

=============================


Their description:

Egyptian, Second Intermediate Period, 1630–1523 B.C.

Length: 2.1 cm (13/16 in.)
Steatite

Classification: Jewelry / Adornment

Object is currently not on view

Inscribed for "the son of Re Apophis"; scroll border.

Museum of Fine Arts, Boston

Gift of Horace L. Mayer, 1957
Accession number: 57.440

Provenance/Ownership History: Luigi Vassalli Collection (1812-1887); by 1957: Horace L. Mayer Collection; 1957: gift of Horace L. Mayer.

=============================


Recreation to bring out detail ...




As far as I can make out so far, the furthest it can be traced back is to a Luigi Vassalli, then to Horace Mayer who gave it to the museum?

There were mostly French pages on Vassalli, that I can not read, so I did not find out where Vassalli claimed he got the Scarab.

Unless some one can trace the origins of the museum piece, I will start from an old dead guy who claimed it was a purchased or found piece from Egypt. (assumption up to this point)



~




zendz

HYK-Forgeries

 HYK-Forgeries

The Cairo Caper

On a documentary about cons/thieves around the world that made great profit out of their criminal activities, I recorded this transcript.. "Master Minds"

Master Minds, TV detective documentary Wed Oct 24 04:28:00 2007

Narrator: The press called him "Indiana Jones," a daring tomb raider who looted ancient artifacts from Egypt.

He obviously recognized that there was a potential to make a huge income from smuggling these antiquities into the west and selling them. His accomplices idolized him as a master of deception. The idea behind the smuggling operation is a fantastic, very, very clever idea. It's brilliant. He was a top player in a dangerous game.

Parry [A] I was immensely proud of what I was doing. It's a game which requires wit and skill and very good nerves.

For 10 years, he eluded authorities on two continents and made millions. Find out how he did it -- next, on "masterminds." Beneath the sands of Egypt lie the remains of 5,000 years of human history. In the early '90s, there was an upsurge in the smuggling of these ancient artifacts. Property was being excavated from the ground and then suddenly turning up in the west and being sold for huge profits.

In an effort to protect their priceless cultural heritage, Egyptian authorities cracked down. Security was dramatically increased. The risks are considerable. Egyptian prisons are not a place that you want to spend a great deal of time in.

But in London, the center of the illegal-antiquities trade, British authorities noticed a flood of illicit goods still coming onto the Market. Various people across the western world were prepared to pay bigger and bigger money. Presuming that you have the expertise, you can make millions of pounds per year.

Police feared someone had found a way to beat the system. This British smuggler was manipulating the whole system for financial gain. He exploits the antiquity Market, but he exploits it brilliantly. Then, in 1993, a 3,000-year-old sculpture of an ancient pharaoh, Amenhotep03 , came onto the London Market.

It was an extremely significant piece. It was a very rare piece.

Smuggler [A] At the height of the gulf war, with security at an all-time high, a master smuggler had found a way to do the impossible. If I had been caught at that time, they'd have killed me.

His most brilliant move was being able to transport it out of Egypt without raising any questions. To get the piece out of the country, he took the shadowy art of smuggling to a level law enforcement had never seen before. Back in England, the statue was transformed from contraband into a legitimate collector's piece and sold for over a million dollars.

He was a mastermind of smuggling antiquities from Egypt.

A lot of the newspapers over here saw me as a sort of Indiana Jones. [A] I saw myself as something very old-fashioned and very traditional, doing something that the English do well -- smuggling with calm nerves and moral courage and a sense of fun -- a sense of humor.

Parry [A] was a dashing, romantic figure, and one of the most ingenious smugglers of the 20th century. The question is, how did he do it? Parry is one of the 20th century's greatest antiquity smugglers, eluding massive security to escape from Egypt with a million-dollar sculpture. But this mastermind with nerves of steel didn't start out like Indiana Jones. Born into a middle-class family, Parry is accepted into prestigious Cambridge university. He develops an interest in art and antiquities and reinvents himself as an upper-class gentleman.

[a] My family wanted me to get on a train and go into the city and make a lot of money and have a heart attack when I was 50. And I point-blank refused.

He's [A] a complex character. He has almost a heightened sense of honor. He wanted to go into the army but was turned down. He then joined the territorial army -- sort of weekend soldiers and part-timers. Denied the opportunity to pursue a full-time military career, Parry returns to his first love, the past.

[A] Just touching something ancient was a wonderful feeling. You catch a vibration. And I knew that that was what I wanted to do.

After training as an antiquities restorer, he quickly gains an international reputation.

[A] I was the highest-paid restorer in England, probably Europe, but I still could not afford to buy any of these wonderful objects. I would have the most stunning things on my table that I had restored and brought back to life, and then I'd have to give them back. And I realized that a restorer is just a servant.

What Parry wants is to be his own master. He was restoring objects for dealers who were selling them for thousands or even hundreds of thousands of pounds. And I think his head was turned. He obviously recognized that there was a potential to make a huge income from smuggling these antiquities into the west and selling them.

[A] Egypt is the place if you have a passion for antiquities -- 3,000 years of continuous civilization, an enormous number of objects and buildings, and the feeling that, at any time, something wonderful is going to turn up.

Parry travels to Cairo, under the guise of a researcher. There, he makes contact with a local smuggler. He befriended a chap called Ali Farag, who was the youngest of a large family, all of whom were engaged in smuggling antiquities out of Egypt.

[C] Ali Farag tells Parry about an artifact that has been found at a construction site, but the gulf war is raging, and Parry must proceed with extreme caution.

The country was under full military alert. Foreigners were being arrested if they were seen with Egyptians. [A] I was actually hiding in the boot of the car because there were roadblocks everywhere. Went out to the southern suburbs of Cairo.

A building contractor with connections to the smuggling underworld has unearthed an ancient artifact. Parry realizes he's looking at a 3,000-year-old sculpture that will make him a very rich man, if he can keep his cool.

[A] The Egyptians are the best salesmen in the world. They're psychologically so brilliant.

The high-stakes game begins.

[A] He was looking at me, and I met his eyes and looked away. The last thing I'm gonna do is let this one go, because I've been waiting for 5 years for this.

Parry is desperate, but so is the contractor. Parry calls his bluff. The Egyptians were panicking. They were desperate for currency.

Now the master dealmaker drives a very hard bargain -- $6,000 cash for a million-dollar piece of history.

[A] I had my first world-class piece. There wasn't any period of feeling, "oh, the world is wonderful. God's on my side." All I realized was, "oh, Christ, how am I gonna get this out?"

Because being caught with the piece could be fatal, he must think fast. His most brilliant move and the move that no one else had identified was the actual disguising of the piece.

[A] And that meant preparing it, which was to make the object look, as much as possible, like a kitsch, a bazaar thing, the sort that idiots buy in the hotel shops all the time. To do this, I had to take a battered antiquity and make it look like a modern complete object, so I had to build up -- make up the things which were missing.

He coats the statue with a gum and applies gold leaf. He polishes the leaf, then paints the sculpture so it looks like a cheap souvenir. He then buys a real souvenir, keeps the receipt, removes the base, and places the sculpture on it.

[A] Having done that, the object looked absolutely ghastly, but it gave us a good chance of getting through. Security was double. There were armed soldiers everywhere. In fact, it was just complete bloody madness for me to do it. And the consequences of getting it wrong would be really, really nasty. I would have been taken to the desert and not come back.

At the airport, security is everywhere. Parry is stopped by the antiquities police.

[A] a guard made me open the suitcase, and he said, "what is this?" I said, "oh, it's a present. Here's the receipt." And I tried to distract him by holding the receipt. And then the bit I dreaded -- he reached into his pocket, and he brought out his bloody keys. Now, Egyptians are very good with keys. They get a key, and they scratch the surface. And I knew that, if he scratched on the face, he would go straight through to the stone, and I'd be buggered. And as he went to scratch, I said, "no, no, not there -- underneath -- much better."

I had to get him down to the base, where I'd prepared an extra inch of plaster just for him to scratch. And he saw the plaster, looked at it, and waved his hand, and wandered off. And thank god I got it right.

Back in England, he sails through customs, but his work is far from complete. First, he must remove the elaborate disguise without damaging the sculpture. Breaking the gilding and plaster is far too risky. But his expert knowledge of chemistry pays off. Before he covered the statue in plaster, he coated it with a protective layer of plastic.

[A] I put it into a bath of acetone, and gradually, gently, everything will float off, leaving the antiquity exactly as I received it in Egypt.

He then took it to the next stage, where he actually changed the eyeline. He added part of the beard to it -- in his own words, "give it a better line so that the collectors would pay more money for it."

But if buyers suspect the piece is stolen, they'll alert police, so he now forges documents to give the statue a convincing history.

[A] To make the labels, I took some Victorian pharmacy labels, cut out the letters, rearranged them, had them printed on a very old stock of paper, and then practiced my copperplate '20s handwriting with ink which I'd chemically faded. And then, having cut out the label, I aged it. I soaked it in tea. I dried it. I wet it. I dried it again. So I had a label that looked thoroughly scratched and ancient.

He glues the label to the back of the sculpture.

[A] It would appear that the object hadn't come from Egypt at all -- had come from an old country collection in England.

Parry is now ready to strike. Through his network of international antiquities dealers, he sells the sculpture for a million dollars.

[A] Congratulations. I couldn't believe it. It seemed that I'd actually achieved what I'd wanted in one hit.

But this success is just the beginning. And Parry's ambition to be the world's greatest antiquities smuggler will soon threaten to bring him down.

Parry [A] has made a million dollars smuggling the sculpture of Amenhotep03. Over the next 4 years, he continues to secretly export Egyptian antiquities and reaps a fortune. He indulged himself with his life-style. He had several suits made by his Devon tailor. He bought an extremely expensive sports car.

[A] I made millions of pounds, which was nice. It's nice to be paid for what you love doing.

As soon as the money got bigger, the objects got bigger, and the whole game became more dangerous and more sophisticated. He realized that he needed a mule to carry these pieces out. Parry targets Mark Perry, a local handyman. {Parry is not Perry. Perry is the mule}

Parry kind of walked in, and I was sort of awestruck by him. I think he saw that I was gullible in the first place. He knew that, "here's a lad, a young lad, young family -- very short of money." Parry offers {the mule}

Mark Perry [D]  500 a week, plus all the adventure he can handle.

[D] Somebody comes along to me and says, "you're going over to Egypt, where you're going to stay in a hotel -- all expenses paid -- and I'm gonna pay you for it" -- but I had the chance of adventure. I had the chance of money and getting away from the day-to-day realities of life. I could actually do something.

Parry soon introduces his protégé to Egypt's smuggling underworld.

[D] We arrived in Cairo, and nothing prepared me for what I was about to feel that day -- just amazing to see. And of course, again, I was awestruck by it all.

[A] I showed Mark what I was doing.

He even trained him in how to camouflage the objects. And then Mark would bring them back to this country.

[A] And I took him through customs once to show him the techniques. And I instructed him very, very carefully what to do if there was any problem.

[D] I did all the dirty donkey work. It was my life on the line. I've carried half a million pounds' worth of antiquity in a bag through the center of Cairo and not even thought anything of it -- didn't even realize what I had. All I was wanting to do was get back for a beer in the bar.

With his mule in place, Parry now hires a more sophisticated partner to help negotiate with the Egyptians.

He makes a deal with 

[E] Andrew may, an aristocrat fallen on hard times.

[A] We had a gentleman's understanding that he would only take the smaller pieces that were no longer of any concern to me, and that he would train himself in the Market, and, eventually, maybe, in a decade's time, he would take over for me.

But [E] Andrew may soon turns out to be a problem. The mistake he made with Andrew may was that, having gone to Egypt and seen the huge amounts of money that could be made, Andrew may had begun buying pieces and bringing them out, as well as bringing out Parry's pieces.

[A] He was too greedy and too hungry and too frightened. And he tried, putting it very simply, to rip me off.

The big difference between [A] Parry and [E] Andrew was that Parry had worked with antiquities for many, many years as a restorer. Parry had done his homework. Andrew, in the space of months, tried to pull off the same act and lacked the knowledge.

In Cairo, Andrew buys a collection of rare, ancient Egyptian documents known as "papyrus." But fearing the artifacts are fake, he takes them to the British museum to be authenticated. It was one of the most stupid things that you could possibly have done.

Museum archeologists quickly realized these are artifacts that they had originally discovered and that had been stolen in Egypt. They contact police.

When we were contacted by the British museum -- formed an opinion immediately that it was such a dumb thing to have done that this person couldn't possibly be responsible for the theft and the looting of this material.

When we started to research Andrew may, we found that he was the owner of a manor house in Devon. One of his tenants was Parry [A], somebody who had a large collection of Egyptian material and was working as a restorer.

The police are ready to move against Parry, but when they arrive at his home, he isn't there. They have to break in.

We found Parry's [A] workshop, and it was in the workshop that we found a vast amount of antiquities.

So it was fortuitous or perhaps unfortunate for Parry that he turned up while we were in his house.

[A] When I got to my front door, I could see that my kitchen window had been smashed. And there was a great, stout man there. And I said to him, "have I been burgled? What's happening?" And he said, "we're the police." And I said, "oh, thank god you're here." And he said, "well, actually, we did that, and we're here to arrest you." And I said, "well, why couldn't you have bloody knocked like anybody else?"

Parry reacted in a typical Parry way. He put on a superior air -- that he was better than anyone else who might be there. He huffed and puffed. He had a rational explanation for everything that he was doing.

Parry [A] is arrested on the charge of handling stolen property. His 10-year multimillion-dollar smuggling operation has finally caught up with him, but putting him in prison will prove extremely difficult.

Parry [A] is arrested but cannot be charged with smuggling because his crimes were committed in Egypt.

And to actually prosecute Parry in this country was not easy. The police are forced to charge him with the lesser crime of handling stolen property. Although he is eventually found guilty, authorities are troubled by the difficulty of bringing him to justice. As a result, new laws are enacted, giving police the power to charge smugglers in their country of residence.

The case itself has redrawn the legal lines for the antiquities Market, the antiquities trade in not just this country, not just in the USA, but for the world.

But to this day, Parry believes he did nothing wrong.

[Parry] I was immensely proud of what I was doing, because having seen what was going on in Egypt, I was aware that, if it weren't for people like me, a lot of those objects would be destroyed.

I've no doubt that he justified his actions to himself through being the modern-day robin hood, saving antiquities for the world. Despite what Parry would like to think of himself, he is and was a criminal.

After serving 3 years of a 6-year sentence, Parry [A] is released. He is currently working again as a restorer and is often consulted by police investigating the illegal-antiquities trade. -- Captions by vitac -- www.Vitac.Com captions paid for by the courtroom television network

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If you ever watched the Antique Road Show, you will see that stuff only 100 .. 200 years can sell for thousands or a couple hundred thousand.

On multiple programs they also show accounts where people bring in forged antiques. Any.. All Egyptology artifacts .. antiques of any kind are to be suspected. Things made of stone or etched in stone are impossible to validate.

Even in this "smuggled piece" , "He then took it to the next stage, where he actually changed the eyeline. He added part of the beard to it -- in his own words, "give it a better line so that the collectors would pay more money for it." (also modified the broken nose).

The discovery of Egyptian artifacts / information is worth hundreds of thousands or millions, directly in cash or in fame that will indirectly put that cash in a faker's pocket. Being "a respected archeologist" is the best way to pass off forgeries.

The broken statue shown in this documentary was a little bigger than a man's hand.

Smuggled, modified to get collectors to pay more money for it.. this little broken piece sold for over 1 million pounds. {British pounds are more than dollars}

This crook made million(S) of pounds in a period of 10 years. He spent 3 years in prison and came out with his millions of pounds still in his pockets.

It is impossible to trust any one when it comes to ancient Egyptian finds. What is really funny is how much of the public believes these people because of their title.. and really funny is when those "Egyptologist" do not even have any physical evidence when they claim to have some new information or evidence about ancient Egypt.

The antique detectives were doing some of the speaking in the documentary. This program will be repeated on the documentary "Master Minds", the title: Cairo Caper

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A fool and his money are soon departed

Parry [ the smuggler] may have created the forgeries himself. It would be so easy to work with another crook inside of Egypt. In the world of theft exist those who do the stealing and those who will jump on goods they think is stolen. By making his crook customers believe he got out of Egypt with a great stolen artifact, it would add great value.

Who ever ended up buying these pieces can be counted among the world's fools.

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In the reenactment of this smuggler he was informed that a contractor had dug up an ancient artifact while excavating. The smuggler had to hide in the trunk and go to the site after dark, at night time on a construction site, Parry [ the smuggler ] paid 6,000 pounds

[ 6,000 British Pound = 12,300 US Dollar ]

This piece (about as big as a soft ball) is made out of stone.

NO isotope tests could validate this piece.

NO carbon dating test could validate this piece.

NO ultraviolet test could validate this piece.

NO electro-microscope test could validate this piece.

Unless the piece of carved stone had elements (steel, plastic..) in it that did not exist at that time, there would be NO scientific way to prove when it was carved. After a stone is a stone and (unless it came from outer space) every stone on earth is the same age.

... So in fear for his own safety, Parry hides in a trunk, goes to a construction site after dark and pays $12,000 for a carved stone in which he had NO way of testing.

He then brought a smuggled piece back to Britain, added a part of a beard and the missing parts of the broken nose.. and sold his smuggled / embellished piece for over 1 Mill/Pounds .. 2 million dollars?

... So collectors are willing to pay over 2 million dollars for a carved stone the size of a softball, which is impossible to verify when it was carved?

It would be a good guess that the Egyptian contractor who "found" the rock had the greatest laugh. All he would had to do is to get a local artist to create the piece and throw it in the mud on the construction site.

No matter, in the end, some goof paid over 2 million dollars for a carved piece of rock that any novice could create.

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What is the chance of "Hyksos" forgeries being milled out? The problem is they do not even have to be good forgeries. The collectors want so bad to obtain such a piece, they are fools for the making.

Today there are many scientific test that can expose fake artifacts, but in the 1800s and 1900s when Egyptology was a rage, forgers could and did rake in millions. Today museums are full of these fakes and no one will ever know the difference.

Before accepting any artifact or ancient text as authentic, you better at least do some basic investigation to get a clue.

Would people actually create forgeries of Egyptian artifacts ? Duh, they would and they do. Forgries of artifacts and paintings earn thieves millions of dollars.

Are people... even "experts" fooled by forgeries? Duh who do you think is being made fools by the forgers !

 

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zendz