HYKSOS-TRANSCRIPT

Hyk-Merneptah Stele

2009-10-02T11:17:00.000-07:00

Hyk-Merneptah Stele
Merneptah Stele
18th Dynasty 1550-1295 BC
Ahmose "drove out the Hyksos"
(8 kings after Ahmose)
Amenhotep III "errected the stele"
Amenhotep IV 1
Neferneferuaten 2
Tutankhamen 3
Ay 4
Horemheb 5
19th Dynasty 1295 - 1186 BC
Rameses I 6
Seti I 7
Rameses II 8
Merenptah 9
Merenpath inscribed the stele after Amenhotep and 8 other kings died? Did Amenhotep errect a blank stele and later Merenpath decided to use it for his own scratch pad?

Merneptah Stele / Israel Stele / Victory Stele
Discovered in the first court of Merneptah's mortuary temple at Thebes by Flinders Petrie in 1896
Now in the collection of the Egyptian Museum at Cairo is a fragmentary copy of the stele also found at Karnak.
Erected by Amenhotep III, later inscribed by Merneptah who ruled Egypt
The black granite stela : height of 318 cm/10 ft - width of 163 cm / 5 ft
The stela is dated to 1208 BC
There is not a single line about Israel. The hieroglyphic is foreigners:
"The foreigners are wasted, bare of seed" or no longer exists.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_rb3EfVqqMWI/SsP3g_lNbAI/AAAAAAAAERs/q5HGjUcA0q0/MerneptahStela.jpg

After doing a little research on the 1976 translation of this stele, I found out what the basis of translating the hieroglyphic word foreigner to Israel.
The woman who translated this happens to have the "Jewish name" (Miriam)
She lived in Israel and studied at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. She also wrote Talmudic material ... You can guess how the word foreigner was changed to Israel by this author.
=============================
The stela is a eulogy to pharaoh Merneptah, who ruled Egypt after Rameses describing a campaign to Canaan by Merneptah
Merneptah was the son of Rameses II and was the next ruler of Egypt in the late 13th century BC
=============================
A couple kings reigned between Rameses 2 and Ramses 3, Merneptah was one of them.
Exodus 1:11 ... The Egyptians set taskmasters over the Israelites.. and they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Ramses.
There was no city of Ramses until there was a king Ramses.
If Merneptah was the son of Ramses 2, then there could be only 2 kings before him.
Genesis 41:46 Joseph was 30 when he stood before Pharaoh
Genesis 50:26 Joseph died, at 110 years old.
110 - 30 = 80 years.
Exodus 1:8 There arose up a new, which knew not Joseph... so that would have to be at least 80 years after Joseph hung out with the pharaoh who's dreams were interpreted.
Genesis 46 There were 52 grandchildren of Israel who went into Egypt. From these all future Israelites would be created.
How many offspring's could be created in 80 years from 52 people?
* If the Israelites built the city of Rameses.. Rameses being any Rameses after Rameses 2, then of course Merneptah could not have encountered any such thing as a nation - Israel in the inscription because he was long dead when Rameses 3 came along.
Israelites in Egypt 430 years plus 40 years wandering in wilderness outside of Canaan = 470 years before they crossed over into Jordan.
From the time Joseph hung out with the Pharaoh of dreams, to the time another pharaoh did not know him was 80 years. The Israelites did not enter into Canaan, for 470 years after they first left. 470 - 80 = 390 years.
* If the Israelites built the city of Ramses 1 or Ramese 2, of course they would still have been in Egypt when Merneptah was fighting in Canaan and inscribed the stele to record the events.. during that period, the Israelites were living in Egypt.
( All of this based on the validity of the bible. If the bible is false of course the Israelites are nothing but myths like leprechauns or Robin Hood)
=============================
Merneptah erected a stele commemorating his victorious campaign against Canaan and Syria around 1212 to 1209 BC
On this stele is the earliest historical mention of the nation of Israel, which Merneptah claims to have totally annihilated
///
The translation is foreigners not Israel and IF the bible is true, there was nothing but a family of less than 50 members or the Israelites were in captivity in Egypt, when Merneptah fought in Canaan.
=============================

The black granite stela primarily commemorates a victory in a campaign against the Libu and Meshwesh Libyans and their Sea People allies, but its final two lines refer to a prior military campaign in Canaan in which Merneptah states that he defeated Ashkelon, Gezer, Yanoam and others.
=============================
If you were actually going to do a study of this translation I suppose you might print out the Word Definitions at the bottom of this page. It is confusing enough with out having a clue what some of the words mean.
=============================
TRANSLATION
http://www.touregypt.net/victorystele.htm
Translation by Miriam Lichtheim. From Ancient Egyptian Literature, Volume II (Berkeley: U of CA Press, 1976)
1 =============================
The Victory (Israeli) Stele of Merneptah
2 =============================
Year 5, 3rd month of summer, day 3, under the Majesty of Horus: Mighty Bull, Rejoicing in Maat; the King of Upper and Lower Egypt: Banere-meramun; the Son of Re: Merneptah, Content with Maat, magnified by the power, exalted by the strength of Horus; strong bull who smites the Nine Bows, whose name is given to eternity forever.
3 =============================
Recital of his victories in all lands, to let all lands together know, to let the glory of his deeds be seen: the King of Upper and Lower Egypt: Banere-meramun; the Son of Re: Merneptah, Content with Maat; the Bull, lord of strength who slays his foes, splendid on the field of valour when his attack is made: Shu who dispelled the cloud that was over Egypt, letting Egypt see the rays of the sun disk.
4 =============================
Who removed the mountain of copper from the people's neck, that he might give breath to the imprisoned folk.
5 =============================
Who let Hut-Ka-Ptah exult over its foes, letting Tjenen triumph over his opponents.
6 =============================
Opener of Memphis' gates that were barred, who allowed the temples to receive their foods.
7 =============================
The King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Banere-meramun, the Son of Re, Merneptah, Content with Maat.
8 =============================
The Sole One who steadied the hearts of hundred thousands, breath entered their nostrils at the sight of him.
9 =============================
Who destroyed the land of the Tjemeh in his lifetime, cast abiding terror in the heart of the Meshwesh.
10 =============================
He turned back the Libyans who trod Egypt, great is dread of Egypt in their hearts.
11 =============================
Their leading troops were left behind, Their legs made no stand except to flee, Their archers abandoned their bows, The hearts of their runners grew weak as they sped, They loosened their water-skins, cast them down, Their packs were untied, thrown away.
12 =============================
The vile chief, the Libyan foe, Fled in the deep of night alone, No plume on his head, his feet unshod, His wives were carried off from his presence, His food supplies were snatched away, He had no drinking water to sustain him.
13 =============================
The gaze of his brothers was fierce to slay him, His officers fought among each other, Their tents were fired, burnt to ashes, All his goods were food for the troops.
14 =============================
When he reached his country he was in mourning those left in his land were loath to receive him "A chief, ill-fated, evil-plumed", All said of him, those of his town.
15 =============================
"He is in the power of the gods, the lords of Memphis The Lord of Egypt has made his name accursed; Merey is the abomination of Memphis, So is son after son of his kin forever.
16 =============================
Banere-meramun will be after his children, Merneptah, Content with Maat is given him as fate.
17 =============================
He has become a [proverbial saying] for Libya, Generation says to generation of his victories: It was never done to us since the time of Re;" So says every old man speaking to his son.
18 =============================
Woe to Libyans, they have ceased to live In the good manner of roaming the field; In a single day their stride was halted In a single year were the Tjehenu burned! Seth turned his back upon their chief, By his word their villages were ruined; There's no work of carrying [loads] these days.
29 =============================
Hiding is useful, it's safe in the cave.
20 =============================
The great Lord of Egypt, might and strength are his, Who will combat, knowing how he strides? A witless fool is he who takes him on, He knows no tomorrow who attacks his border! As for Egypt, "Since the gods," they say, "She is the only daughter of Pre; His son is he who's on the throne of Shu, None who attacks her people will succeed.
21 =============================
The eye of every god is after her despoiler, It will make an end of all its foes", So say they who gaze toward their stars, And know all their spells by looking to the winds.
22 =============================
A great wonder has occurred for Egypt, Her attacker was placed captive (in) her hand, Through the counsels of the godly king, Who prevailed against his foes before Pre.
23 =============================
Merey who stealthily did evil To all the gods who are in Memphis, He was contended with in On, The Ennead found him guilty of his crimes.
24 =============================
Said the Lord-of-all: "Give the sword to my son, The right-hearted, kind, gracious Banere-meramun, Who cared for Memphis, who avenged On, Who opened the quarters that were barred.
25 =============================
He has freed the many shut up in all districts, He has given the offerings to the temples, He has let incense be brought to the gods, He has let the nobles retain their possessions, He has let the humble frequent their towns".
26 =============================
Then spoke the lords of On in behalf of their son, Merneptah, Content with Maat: "Grant him a lifetime like that of Re, To avenge those injured by any land; Egypt has been assigned him as portion, He owns it forever to protect its people".
27 =============================
Lo, when one dwells in the time of the mighty, The breath of life comes readily.
28 =============================
The brave bestows wealth on the just, The cheat cannot retain his plunder; [What a man has of ill-gotten wealth Falls to others, not (his) children.
29 =============================
] This (too) shall be said: Merey the vile foe, the Libyan foe Had come to attack the walls of Ta-tenen, Whose lord had made his son arise in his place, The King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Banere-meramun, Son of Re, Merneptah, Content with Maat.
30 =============================
Then said Ptah concerning the vile Libyan foe: "His crimes are all gathered upon his head.
31 =============================
Give him into the hand of Merneptah, Content with Maat, He shall make him spew what he gorged like a crocodile.
32 =============================
Lo, the swift will catch the swift, The lord who knows his strength will snare him; It is Amun who curbs him with his hand, He will deliver him to his Ka in Southern On, The King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Banere-meramun, Son of Re, Merneptah, Content with Maat".
=============================
33 Great joy has arisen in Egypt, Shouts go up from Egypt's towns; They relate the Libyan victories Of Merneptah, Content with Maat: "How beloved is he, the victorious ruler! How exalted is he, the King among the gods! How splendid is he, the lord of command! O how sweet it is to sit and babble!" One walks free-striding on the road, For there's no fear in people's hearts; Fortresses are left to themselves, Wells are open for the messengers' use.
=============================
34 Bastioned ramparts are becalmed, Sunlight only wakes the watchmen; Medjai are stretched out asleep, Nau and Tekten are in the fields they love.
=============================
35 The cattle of the field are left to roam, No herdsmen cross the river's flood; There's no calling out at night: "Wait, I come," in a stranger's voice.
=============================
36 Going and coming are with song, People don't [lament] and mourn; Towns are settled once again, He who tends his crop will eat it.
=============================
37 Re has turned around to Egypt, The Son is ordained as her protector, The King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Banere-meramun, Son of Re, Merneptah, Content with Maat The princes are prostrate saying: "Shalom!" Not one of the Nine Bows lifts his head: Tjehenu is vanquished, Khatti at peace, Canaan is captive with all woe.
=============================
38 Ashkelon is conquered, Gezer seized, Yanoam made nonexistent; ~~Israel~~ foreigners are wasted, bare of seed, Khor is become a widow for Egypt.
Foreigners NOT Israel !
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rb3EfVqqMWI/SsOeNNM64NI/AAAAAAAAERU/aoxuQQsAcvQ/Merneptah-Stela2.jpg

=============================
39 All who roamed have been subdued.
=============================
40 By the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Banere-meramun, Son of Re, Merneptah, Content with Maat, Given life like Re every day.
=============================
Word Definitions
I did a quick check of the meaning of the words I didn't know. I am not sure the definitions I did find, are the definitions of the words used in this translation. If you were really going to do a complete study of this stele, I suppose you should have print out of the definitions as you read along. If you find definitions I got wrong or didn't include, send me a post scribesofegypt@ymail.com
Amun = a god
Ashkelon = Ashkelon is just 12 miles (19 kilometers) north of the Gaza Strip.
Banere-meramun = son of Re (Re = an Egyptian god)
Bastioned = ???
Canaan = Palestine / Israel
Ennead = Egyptian god
Gezer = Gezer is located c.8 km south-east of modern Ramla
Horus = An Egyptian god
Hut-Ka-Ptah = Another geographic term for Memphis
Ka = ???
Khatti = Kheta or Khatti were identical with the Hittites <> The Khatti were the rulers of the early Akkad-Sumerians
Khor = Khor is located 57 km from Doha
Miriam Lichtheim = Berkley woman with a "Jewish name" (Miriam) translated the stele. (1914, Istanbul – 2004, Jerusalem). She studied at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. In 1982 she moved to Israel where she taught at the Hebrew University. She wrote Talmudic books http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Miriam+Lichtheim%22+Talmudic+&hl=en&sa=2
Maat = The Ancient Egyptian concept of truth, balance, order, law, morality, and justice
Medjai = Medjai were a tribal community, but split: one part was pastoral, the other served as soldiers in the Egyptian army. The Medjai were an ancient people of Nubia
Merey = Enemy of the Egyptians
Merneptah = Egyptian king who inscribed the stele
Meshwesh = An ancient Libyan (i.e., Berber) tribe from Cyrenaica
Nau = Unidentified person/god
Ptah = Ptah was the chief god of the ancient city of Memphis
Re = Re was identified with Horus, who as a falcon-god represented the loftiness of the skies
Shu = A god the Egyptians believed that Shu was the second divine pharaoh, ruling after Ra = Ra was more than just another god. He was the bringer of life and master of the heavens
Ta-tenen = Unidentified person/god
Tekten = Unidentified God/Person
Tjehenu = Inhabitants of the regions known as Tjemeh and Tjehnu, a more generic terms applied to the region west of the Delta, as far as Cyrenaica in modern Libya
Tjemeh = Inhabitants of the regions known as Tjemeh and Tjehnu, a more generic terms applied to the region west of the Delta, as far as Cyrenaica in modern Libya
Tjenen = Unidentified Egyptian?
Yanoam = Yanoam (located in Galilee)

zendz

HYK-Merneptah-Stele-Translation-or-Perversion

2009-09-30T11:25:00.001-07:00

Merneptah-Stele-Translation-or-Perversion

Many people repeat what they read because they actually believe it, but after they find it is false and continue to repeat it, should we label them scholars, Egyptologist or should we label them liars.

Ahmose autobiography, The door jamb from Tell el-Dab'a, Khamudy hieroglyphics, Merneptah Stela ... all said to identify Asiatics, Hyksos or Israelites.

The hieroglyphic said to have that meaning in Ahmose autobiography does not exist in any of the other hieroglyphics.

The hieroglyphic said to have that meaning in the door jamb from Tell el-Dab'a does not exist in any of the other hieroglyphics.

The hieroglyphic said to have that meaning in the Khamudy hieroglyphics does not exist in any of the other hieroglyphics.

The hieroglyphic said to have that meaning in the Merneptah Stela does not exist in any of the other hieroglyphics.

In the multiple hieroglyphic sources said to have the word Asiatic, how is it all the words in the sources are different hieroglyphic spellings?

=============================

When a population encounters a population of a different language, they can learn the meanings of each other's words.

When a population attempts to hide the meaning of their words or the population speaking that language no longer exists, then the process of code breaking is used.

Code breaking works by finding patterns. Trying to find out what a word of another language also is a search for patterns .... and if/when some of the words are known, the meanings of words can be found by looking at in the context.

* If an unknown word is in a sentence and there is no information in the sentence to identify the meaning ... there is no understanding of that word.

* If a word is only found once in a language (with no accompanying information) the meaning of that word can never be known.

* If a word is found many times in different writings, then the examination of the word in each context will be evidence of it's possible meaning.

=============================

A source of hieroglyphics was found in 1896 and the glyphs on a line was translated to foreigners .... decades later in 1976 another 'expert' translated the same glyphs to Israel.

How did they get "Israel" out of foreigners?

Amalekites, Amorites, Arvadites, Edomites, Girgashites, Hamathite, Hittites, Horites, Ishmaelites, Jebusites, Kadmoites, Kenizzites, Midianites, Moabites, Perizzites, Philistines, Zemarites ... ALL of these and More tribes were foreigners and they were in Canaan, so how does these experts, chose Israel to be the foreigners and change the translation?

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rb3EfVqqMWI/SsOeNNM64NI/AAAAAAAAERU/aoxuQQsAcvQ/Merneptah-Stela2.jpg

Does this source of hieroglyphics state they were circumcised, does it say they would not work on a certain day of the week, does the hieroglyphic say they performed burnt sacrifices.. NO, NO, NO !

Ashkelon is conquered, Gezer seized, Yanoam made nonexistent; the foreigners are wasted, bare of seed, Khor is become a widow for Egypt.

I would suggest you find any one who translates that word to Israel, to find that set of glyphs in ANY OTHER EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHS or to explain how they determined those particular foreigners can be identified as Israelites.... Take all challengers, ask them to have a trained translator of hieroglyphics to publish how they concluded the word identifies Israel and see if they will sign their name to their assertion on a public web page.

=============================

The Merneptah Stele is non-descript. There is NO information to identify those foreigners as "Amalekites, Amorites, Arvadites, Edomites, Girgashites, Hamathite, Hittites, Horites, Ishmaelites, Jebusites, Kadmoites, Kenizzites, Midianites, Moabites, Perizzites, Philistines or Zemarites" .. NOTHING in the context to identify that word as Israel.

Identifying that word as Israel would be as idiotic as reading an account about a football fan throwing a beer bottle at a ref.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_rb3EfVqqMWI/SsNud4T0UeI/AAAAAAAAERI/CK5u_VIMCk4/Abstract.jpg

What fan, goofy? The one with his hand in the air? NO, to remove a word from the abstract/unknown to the defined department, there would have to be a unique identification that identified them.

The guy with his hat on backwards, would eliminate all girls and all who did not have their hat on backwards.

Why would any one inject the word Israel, when there is NOTHING to identify that word as Israel? To appease the religious who invent evidence for their make believe stories.

Why would any one who knows there is NO evidence that word is Israel, jump on the band wagon and promote that BS?

I guess it is more fun to jump on the band wagon and get along with the ignorant or liars, then it is to be truthful?

It is quite funny how they call the Merneptah Stele, "The Israel Stele" when there are only 5 words in the complete context and none of these words are identified as Israel.

IF a word is only found once in an unknown language and there is nothing in the context to identify it's meaning, then it's meaning is UNKNOWN !

If a word is found multiple times in an unknown language, then the linguist can examine the word in the multiple context and get an insight of the word's meaning.

Show how any translator arrived at the decision the word in the Merneptah Stele identifies Israel, then show us the name of the translator, their translation training and where they will testify to the meaning of this word in a public web page.

=============================

This is only one example of the concocted definitions used by BSERS who call themselves scholars/Egyptologist.

zendz

HYK-Speos-Artemidos-Inscription

2009-09-29T08:38:00.000-07:00

HYK-Speos-Artemidos-Inscription
Hatshepsut/Hyksos/Asiatics

The pdf file this information comes from is here. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EncEg_Hyksos/files/Speos-Artemidos/ You must right click on it, left click on save target as .. a location on your hard drive, and open it from your hard drive.

I add links to images in case they do not appear in the web pages.

=============================

Golenischeff / Moller vs Davies vs Allen vs Fairman

The pdf file uses the word Hyksos 4 times (but this is not a word translated from the hieroglyphic). All the BS about Hyksos is attributed by "historians" who's source is their own lips and not any hieroglyphic text. (If you chose the word Asiatic or Hyksos, FINE, then point out the hieroglyphic glyphs you use and we will document it for later cross examination)

"Davies copy stands in the original"

Golenischeff did provide poor photographs.

The pdf file reveals the controversy in the translations and goes into great detail.

=============================

From what I have already been given this is the James P. Allen, "The Speos Artemidos Inscription of Hatshepsut", Bulletin of the Egyptological Seminar 16 (2002), pp.1-17, pls.1+2.

Hear ye, all people and folk as many as they may be, I have done these things through the counsel of my heart. I have not slept forgetfully, (but) I have restored that which had been ruined. I have raised up that which had gone to pieces formerly, since the Asiatics were in the midst of Avaris of the Northland, and vagabonds were in the midst of them, overthrowing that which had been made.

(What sketch or photo was the above translation made from?)

=============================

From the pdf file this appears to be the Davies translation of this same section.

Speos Artemidos

Hearken, all ye patricians, and common folk as many as ye be, I have done these things by the

36 device of my heart. 12 I never slumbered as one forgetful, but have made strong what was de-

37 cayed. I have raised up what was dismembered, t even from the first time when 13 the Asiatics

38 were in Avaris of the North land, (with) roving hordes in the midst of them overthrowing what

had been made; they ruled with out I Rec, and he acted not by divine command (?) down to my

39 august self, u I being firm established on the throne of Rec

.=============================

Below is the section of the sketch (lines 36-38) that the translation was made from.

Point out the glyphs that you translate to Asiatic/Hyksos so I may compare that word with other hieroglyphics which are supposed to contain that word.

If the word in this sketch is NEVER used in any other hieroglyph, how does one decide it's meaning?

Show us what other hieroglyphic source is the word you translate to Asiatic/Hyksos is found.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EncEg_Hyksos/files/Speos-Artemidos/Speos-Artemidos-2.jpg

So point out the word Asiatic/Hyksos !

zendz

Hyk-Egyptian-Rivals

2009-09-20T21:59:00.000-07:00

Nations that did and did not rule Egypt

Empires that expanded into Egypt

These are boundary maps.. just outlines of ancient empires. I have multiple map programs. I used my Map Maker Toolkit for most of them. It is a mapping program used in schools and has ancient empires already prepared. What the program did not have, I got off the internet.

They do not have to be accurate, because no such maps are. Maps give you the general outline of borders or empires.

Would I be so goofy to say no outsiders ever ruled Egypt? Here are a few and I am only looking at populations north of Egypt.

By the outline of these maps..

The Israelites never ruled Canaan. They just won some and lost some battles. These other sub tribes of Canaan was there before and long after the Israelites were scattered through out Asia and north Africa.

Through the Israelites were commanded to drive out the inhabitants of the land, it Never happened:

Joshua 15:63 As for the Jebusites the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the children of Judah could not drive them out; but the Jebusites dwell with the children of Judah at Jerusalem unto this day

Joshua 17:12 Yet the children of Manasseh could not drive out the inhabitants of those cities; but the Canaanites would dwell in that land

Judges 1:19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

Judges 1:21 And the children of Benjamin did not drive out the Jebusites that inhabited Jerusalem; but the Jebusites dwell with the children of Benjamin in Jerusalem unto this day

Judges 1:32 But the Asherites dwelt among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land: for they did not drive them out.

The Canaanite Empire never ruled Egypt. Canaan was like Africa having MANY divided nations inside of its land area.

In the bible accounts of the Israelites they were just a family of less than 70 before they went into Egypt. They were in captivity for 430 years. When they returned they held power at times for a few hundred years, then by the time of 2nd Kings, they were scattered again.

They NEVER drove out the original Asian tribes of Canaan.

The other tribes lived right in the midst of the Israelites.. such as the Hittites.

2 Samuel 11:3 David's neighbor was a Hittite.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rb3EfVqqMWI/SrcCDXsBIZI/AAAAAAAAEOc/jsUYIPYf8so/Empire-Cananites.jpg

These multiple tribes remained there long after the Israelites were dispersed .

Canaan was not a united empire at any time, just a pot luck of divided factions that fought among themselves

==========================

The Akkadian Empire only reached as far as the Sinia, so they never ruled.

==========================
(Greeks) Alexandria ruled Egypt

==========================
Assyria ruled Egypt

==========================
Babylon only reached as far as the Sinia

==========================
The Byzantine empire ruled Egypt

==========================
The Hittites never ruled Egypt

==========================

The Ottoman Empire ruled Egypt

==========================

The Persian Empire ruled Egypt

==========================

The Roman Empire ruled Egypt

==========================

Of course multiple empires ruled Egypt through the centuries and they are documented. The idea that any of the divided factions of the tribes of Canaan ruled Egypt, is only in the vapor from flapping lips.

==========================

If I have missed any empires that reached into Egypt, let me know. The album in the link below contains all the empires listed above.

http://picasaweb.google.com/arabisraelites/Maps#

zendz

Hyk-Hypothetical-Hieroglyphic-names

2009-09-19T18:10:00.000-07:00

Hypothetical-Hieroglyphic-names

As for Canaanites ruling Egypt, give me a break. Canaan was not an empire united under one power. Canaan was divided into dozens of tribes/nations. The artifacts from Canaan/Palestine are nothing compared to the Egyptian civilization.
In the bible stories, the Israelites did not come riding in on chariots
Genesis 41:42 And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck;
Genesis 41:43 And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had.
Joseph got to ride in on Pharaoh's second chariot he had parked in the garage.
Genesis 46:5 And Jacob rose up from Beersheba: and the sons of Israel carried Jacob their father, and their little ones, and their wives, in the wagons which Pharaoh had sent to carry him. .. The Israelites did not even have their own transportation, Pharaoh had to send wagons to pick them up.
The whole 'Hyksos' caper is the promotion of European 'Jews' who try to make the world believe their ancestors ruled Egypt.
===============================

There is no hieroglyphics that tie any of the Egyptian enemy to the same population.

Hieroglyphics are just little pictures instead of letters. The pictures (glyphs) AND the sequence they were arranged, determined the meaning of the hieroglyphic text.

In this example

1 Identified a people in a tomb in the 12th dynasty
2 Identified a people in the 14th dynasty
3 Identified a people in the 15th dynasty
4 and 5 identified a people in the 18th dynasty

These hieroglyphics were found in different areas in different decades. Ok, Mr. Translator were the Egyptians identifying the same population or are these the identifications of different populations?

To generate these hypothetical names I used a silly hieroglyphic generator and each word is from 1 Germans, 2 Spanish, 3 Russians, 4 Americans, 5 French.

It is that simple, if you use the characters of Europeans, swap which character and which arrangement, that particular arrangement identifies a specific people.. and if it is a different arrangement, then it is the identification of a different people.

Look at countries around the world. They have conflicts with others from multiple outside nations and from inside factions. Why would any one just assume the reference in the different hieroglyphic sources are a reference to the same population?

There are multiple different sources from different decades and different parts of Egypt in which people assert, identify Hyksos.

The test is simple, extract the word said to be Hyksos or Asiatic from each source and place them where you can see them all, and see if they are the same or totally different hieroglyphic words.

Germans, Spanish, Russians, Americans, French .. hieroglyphic or European character sets, different characters in different arrangements is a different word.

Take all the hieroglyphics in which the Egyptians identify their enemy ... take that word which they call their enemy .. and place the hieroglyphic name of each enemy like the above example.

I don't know, but I am guessing most or all of these hieroglyphic sources identify each of their enemy with different hieroglyphic words?

It does not prove conclusively they were not the same people, but it does prove conclusively that there is not a shred of evidence connecting the enemy in one hieroglyphic source with an enemy in another hieroglyphic source ... The Egyptians were surrounded with other tribes/nations on all sides.

~

zendz

HYK-Hatshepsut-n-da-Hyksos

2009-09-19T15:00:00.000-07:00

HYK-Hatshepsut-n-da-Hyksos

Hatsheput / Speos Artemidos Inscription

Near Beni Hasan

A little over a month ago I was told of another source identifying the Hyksos.

From this web page

The doorway leads into a hall, its ceiling is decorated with hieroglyphs and relief's which are now very worn and difficult to read in some parts.

The most important was inscribed by Hatshepsut on the architrave over the entrance and denounces the 'Asiatics of Avaris' (the Hyksos) who ruled Egypt.

Hatshepsut describes the chaos of Hyksos rule

=============================

#1 I can not find one photo of the specific area where these hieroglyphics exist.

#2 I can not find one image of a sketch of any who was supposed to have sketched the hieroglyphics.

#3 I can not find one photograph of the hieroglyphic, that any sketch was made from

I have communicated with lots of people who tell what is in the inscription but NONE of them can produce an image of the hieroglyphic sketch or a photo of the original glyphs.

So far I have read something about these guys in connection with the inscription.

Norman de Garis Davies, Professor Sethe, James Henry Breasted

From what I have read , there are claims that these guys created sketches of the hieroglyphic... BUT no where can I find an image of their sketches, so far.

Assuming they actually do exist, it would be great to place the sketches side by side for a comparison.

In the information on Breasted, he is depicted as an excellent photographer and knew how to arrange lighting to bring out the best detail.

A camera and the proper lighting can produce details that can not be seen with the human eye.

So far, every one I have heard tells about the information from a sketch they have never seen.. and the location where the hieroglyphic is said to be, has deteriorated and the image can not be seen today.

I like to include images of the statue/image/hieroglyphic in the topic, but until some one produces an image of it, I could only include a picture of a puff of smoke... When I asked about the hieroglyphic, this is the reply:

The inscription is written on the facade of a rock cut shrine in Middle Egypt known today as the Speos Artemidos, which is near Beni Hasan. The inscription is almost impossible to see and photograph as it is in shadow most of the time.

Of course flash or time delay photography would give excellent photos in the dark. One can even take photos of a flower at night with a cloud covered sky (with out flash or any kind of lighting).

When they find something of great importance, they plaster images of it all over the world, but when they speak of something with a big problem, they are as camera shy as a teen ager with a big pimple on their nose, could it be they can not show what they can't see themselves with or with out light?

=============================

Let's say the hieroglyph was in tact and the Egyptians wrote exactly what is found in the present translations.

=============================
Hatshepsut:
Hear ye, all people and folk as many as they may be, I have done these things through the counsel of my heart. I have not slept forgetfully, (but)
a) I have restored that which had been ruined.
b) I have raised up that which had gone to pieces formerly,
c) since the Asiatics were in the midst of Avaris of the Northland,
d) and vagabonds were in the midst of them, overthrowing that which had been made.
=============================

Assuming this text did exist before it crumbled..

a) Does not mention that Hatsheput encountered any Hyksos, but this line states she had repaired/restored that which had been ruined.

b) Nothing about any encounter with any foreigners, information about the restoration of that which had gone to pieces.

c) Does not say the Asaitics and Hatsheput were in a rumble, but it says the Asiatics were (past tense) in Avaris.

d) Vagabonds .. is a reference to slackers, hippies... Vagabond: 1. A person without a permanent home who moves from place to place. 2. A vagrant; a tramp. 3. A wanderer; Of, relating to, or characteristic of a wanderer; nomadic.

Of course this would include shepherds .. and Egypt was full of shepherds centuries before and after the Hyksos accounts.

"The vagabonds were in the midst of them (speaking about Asiatics) overthrowing that which had been made"

If this translation is correct, it would appear the vagabonds were destructive to the Asiatics.

e) In the mythical stories of the Hyksos, Avaris was their capital. If this were the capital of the Hyksos, they would not be destroying their own pad.

The only way Hyksos destruction of Avaris fits, is IF it were ruled by the Egyptians and the Hyksos invaded the capital of the Egyptians.

f) As for the word translated to Asiatics, it is important to see the actual photographic or sketched image of this word so it can be compared to other text in which hieroglyphics are translated to Asiatics.

We can see if this word identifies the same subset of enemy or if the Egyptians were writing about different groups.

=============================

18th Dynasty 1550-1295 BC

Ahmose ... drove out the unidentified enemy ... he died

Amenhotep I ... grew up, ruled and died

Thutmose I ... grew up, ruled and died

Thutmose II... grew up, ruled and died

Hatshepsut ... grew up.

.. put her thoughts on this surface.

So of course this enemy was driven out long before Hatsheput was ever born.

IF this translation is of a hieroglyphic that actually existed, there is nothing about any encounter of Hatsheput with the 'Hatsheput', but the basic information is about Hatshepsut's clean up/rebuilding after the 'Hyksos' were long gone.

A man sitting in his cabin shooting at the Indians does not destroy that which he has built. The destroyers will be the Indians who shoot flaming arrows to destroy the man and his family.

g) NOTHING here states this enemy ever ruled Avaris. If they ruled Avaris they would have protected it (not destroyed it). The only way this enemy would have destroyed this city is if the Egyptians ruled it, and the enemy invaded it.

These invaders were invaders who came into Egypt like Pancho Villa. Their siege lasted longer but they were driven out. They never ruled northern Egypt, Ahmose gives the exact identification of who did rule Egypt... all of Egypt !

///

Not Ahmose the ruler, but this is Ahmose the military leader

The Autobiography of Ahmose, Son of Abana

Ahmose: I grew up in the town of Nekheb, my father being a soldier of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Sekenenre, the justified. Baba son of Reinet was his name.

///

NO where did the Egyptians EVER write the enemy ruled northern Egypt, but here the military leader Ahmose, reveals his father served the EGYPTIAN KING who ruled southern and northern Egypt !

=============================

TEST TIME

In your translation from this hieroglyphic sketch/photo (Hatsheput speaking of the Asiatics) you have never seen.

h) Give the line(s) which speaks of Hatshepsut repairing/rebuilding that city

i) Give the line in which this enemy is identified by where they originated from.

j) Give the line in which it states that Hatshepsut encountered this enemy.

k) Give the line in which this enemy is said to have ruled Avaris

I always thought that those who knowingly promoted false information was identified as liars, but here I guess, most are just Lemmings who parriot what they have heard.

By the translation you embrace, show me which of this information does exist and which of this information does NOT exist?

zendz

SHOW US YOUR PHOTOGRAPHS

2009-09-13T21:21:00.000-07:00

Vague speech / letters

SHOW US YOUR PHOTOGRAPHS

Tonight (Sep 12, 2009) they had a segment about the rage of tennis players and reported a great deal of the controversy can no longer be spouted because of the camera system that takes away human judgment. Photography / instant replay in football has also provided the exact way events took place and removed the error of human judgment

Though photography can be faked, it remains a valuable tool in court, because a faked photo would prove the intent forge false evidence. On the stand a witness can blubber around and try to be misleading, but when they present a photo, they are being precise.

It is a common practice for some one to provide photos to prove the amount of damaged property.

Can you imagine some one going into a court room and presenting their sketched interpretation of the damage instead of a photo?

=============================

1827 Frenchman Joseph Nicphore Nipce

On 13 April 1841 The Australasian Chronicle announced the arrival of the daguerreotype in New South Wales:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_SnrkgXreYWA/Sq1pDxl8FdI/AAAAAAAAADs/0I2hVjQ7dpA/Photography99.jpg

Abraham Lincoln, 1860
Mathew Brady
Salted-paper print, 3.4"x2.1"
National Portrait Gallery
Image No. NPG.96.179

=============================

Why do we read about all the Egyptologist in the early 1900s sketching the images in the tombs instead of photographing them?

=============================

I am guessing 99% of all who will ever read this page are not professional Egyptologist.. just the average bear like the rest of us.

I doubt if 10% of you have ever been to Egypt and if you have, you spent two weeks or less on a tour that was all planned out where you would stop and how long you would be in any particular location.

If you studied hieroglyphics for a long time before your trip and actually memorized all the glyphs, on your stop at each location, you may have seen lots of hieroglyphs.

Do you also have a photographic memory?

If you did have all the glyphs memorized and you have a photographic memory of what words were on each hieroglyphic source you saw, then you still only have the knowledge of the hieroglyphs you saw and memorized on your tour.

=============================

Where do the masses (including those who call themselves Egyptologist) get their information about hieroglyphics.

* You get it by reading what some one else wrote about the hieroglyph ... or

* You get your information from seeing photos you (or some one else) took photos of the hieroglyphs.

=============================

When people create the web pages about 'Hyksos' they site this source and that source.. but they never show a photo of the original source.

BEFORE any one translated any thing to hieroglyphics they either went to Egypt and sat in front of each source translating it, OR they made their translation from photos.

IF any information actually exists in a photo of any hieroglyphic, then those who know where it is can

a) Identify the source.. show us a photo of what you were looking at.

b) Show what line from the top their information is found.

I keep on reading things about what the Hyksos did in ancient Egypt, but the only way any one would know this is, if it is written in the hieroglyphics (and the only people who were writing the hieroglyphics in the tombs were the Egyptians)

* Show us the source and give us the line from the top where the Egyptians wrote "The Hyksos ruled northern Egypt"

* Show us the source and give us the line from the top where the Egyptians wrote "Avaris was the Hyksos capital"

* Show us the source and give us the line from the top where the Egyptians wrote (those modern writers call Hyksos rulers), show us where the Egyptians identified any of them as kings or rulers.

IF any of this information is written by the Egyptians then the 'experts' can show us the source where it is written and the very line it is written on.

Instead of quoting gossip from web authors who copied their gossip from other web authors, show us a photo of your source and where this information is written.

IF it is not written in the hieroglyphics, it is mythology, BS concocted and spread by those who get their info from those who do not have a photo of the source or could not read hieroglyphics, if they did.

Any one who can not point to a photo of the hieroglyphic source and show you what line that information is written on, is no more than a puppet repeating that which they have no knowledge of.

zendz

Egyptology-vs-Mythology

2009-09-10T18:33:00.000-07:00

Egyptology-vs-Mythology

Deciphering hieroglyphics is still far from an exact science. The Rosette Stone was found over 200 years ago and there is still an ongoing conflict about the translation.

Is the field of Egyptology to include mythology and fairy tales as well?

I suppose it would expedite research if the make believe were branded for what it is and ignored.

=============================

In make believe, any one, any time in history can concoct any thing. When it is challenged the ignorant argument is produced. It goes something like this:

There is no evidence of The Lost City of Atlantis.

-Prove it does not exist.

The ignorant argument is based on proving what did not happen, proving the negative.

What you do not know, what you can not prove, is evidence of nothing but your ignorance.

In concocted history any BSER can fabricate any amount of lies they wish and never be caught because * There is no way to go back in history with out a time machine.

Josephus wrote the accounts about the Hyksos.

John Hanna and his wife were abducted by aliens

King Tut played a game similar to bowling.

Moses sold stones he called magic to the Israelites.

No one can prove what did NOT happen .. the stupid argument is based on what can not be proven, ignorance.

Research/Science is not based on ignorance, but research is based on evidence/facts/what can be proven.

Before you could consider the validity of any account, you would first have to look for any supporting evidence.

=============================

When a jury finds a defendant guilty or innocent.. guilty = yes they did do the bad thing, not guilty = no, they did not do that thing.

You are on the Judge

Case (A)

Tom was accused of robbery. In his garage the authorities found money bags from the bank

(You would hand the case over to the Jury or throw it out)

=============================

Case (B)

George was accused of starting a fire

The accuser was man who said he read in a letter, that a dead man wrote in a letter, that dead man read in another letter of another man who died before him, that George started a fire 20 years ago. (None of the letters existed)

Not a shred of evidence existed. The case was based on what two dead men were supposed to have written, and there is no evidence that those men ever existed.

Neither of the dead men were around when the fire started.

Neither of the letters of the two dead men existed

(You would hand the case over to the Jury or throw it out)

=============================

Case (C)

Mike was accused of the murder of his wife. (He claimed to have been out of town at the time)

On his computer they found searches how to murder and get away with it.

On the murder weapon they found his prints.

On his shoes they found the blood of his wife.

(You would hand the case over to the Jury or throw it out)

=============================

As the judge, would you allow all of the cases above to go to a jury ?

If you would through out any of the cases, which would it be?

=============================

In Egyptology there are literally tons of hieroglyphics written in stone and physical, age dated artifacts. Why would any one calling themselves a scientist/researcher waste their time with mythology?

In the past books and those who could read were few. People retold stories verbally from one generation to another.

Ghost stories, Robin Hood, The Legend of Sleep Hollow ... Does a fairy tale become fact after the verbal citations are put in print?

IF there is no evidence to base any past events on, they remain a myth if by print or the flapping of the lips.

Well they could be true.. you can not prove it is not true.. the only support of myths is the stupid argument.. ignorance, what can not be proved.

Science/research is based on what can be proven. Myths are based on the imagination.

=============================

Myths are usually embraced when they conform with wishful thinking.

Finding the lost city of Atlantis.

I am the descendant of some great leader of the past

Being abducted by friendly aliens

The Israelites ruling Egypt

Finding the lost Ark

When a myth, tickles their fancy, it is swallowed hook, line and sinker, but when a myth goes against their grain, they spit it out?

After I read people claiming to be 'Egyptologist' repeating myths to promote their assertions, I like to bring up an unpopular myth:

=============================

In a tomb is an image of some farmers/herders with animals. They are wearing striped clothes. From this image, on their web pages they write:

This is an image of the Israelites migrating into Egypt.

(They use the striped clothes as evidence it is the Israelites)

When I post the account of Professor L. Englehart who reported in his journal that he witnessed crooked Egyptologist in the tomb after hours, painting the stripes on those images.

When I write the account that image never had any striped clothes before several years before 1900 ... it is instant rage.

When a myth is produced that is contrary to their wishful thinking.

* Englehart was a @#$ liar.

* Where is the journal right now?

With out the journal, I suppose the paint could be age dated and examined for chemical content, or if there were some kind of published photos before 1900, one might examine it for stripes.

The Egyptian common people are very poor. It would have been easy to bribe guards to allow wealthy foreigners in after the tombs were closed.

It is quite possible that 'Egyptologist' create forgeries. In my section on forgeries, some of the actual cases are listed. Faked antiques is a multi million dollar industry.

NO matter that no one can not prove this did NOT happen, it remains a myth and is not worth spit.

=============================

A MIXTURE OF FACTS AND LIES

When forgers concoct 'historic events', one of the best tricks is sprinkle some known information in with the lies.

If you wanted to create a fake letter to George Washington and make it believable, you would sprinkle in some facts such as the year, names of people he encountered, places he was at that particular time.

A good forgery takes information already established to mix in with the concoction.

=============================

When people write that Josephus said... I like to counter:

#1 The ancient Egyptians wrote in hieroglyphs, didn't Josephus write in Latin?

#2 Josephus was not born until centuries after the Hyksos were expelled and he lived in another country. How could Josephus be a witness of events that took place before he was born?

#3 You can not make a copy of that which you do not have to copy from. In the books published of what Josephus wrote, show us where the writings are that these authors copied their publications from?

#4 Josephus was supposed to have gotten his information from Manethos. Manethos lived in another country and died centuries before Josephus was ever born.

Show us what museum the writings of Manethos is today so we can go there?

#5 Manethos was not born until 200 years until after the Hyksos were expelled.

Explain how Manethos could record events that he could not be a witness to?

Recently I was accused of calling Joesphus a liar. Before I could call Josephus a liar, there would first have to be a Josephus.

The ONLY evidence that a Josephus ever existed is by the text he was said to have written.

Show us the museum where we can see the text written by Josephus.

Judge: What would you do if the validity of evidence in the Josephus account, was presented evidence in a court. Scroll back to Case B and see what your decision was in a case of non existence evidence.

=============================

There will be a never ending stream of mythology accounts mixed into Egyptology by those who concoct them and the lemmings who are pleased by them.

I would suggest that myths be documented in the encyclopedia of Egyptology and marked with a symbol denoting myth

(M) Josephus

(M) Manethos

When researchers go to that reference, a detailed file would lay out the case these are only myths with on existing evidence.

=============================

Other than the honest, even the experts can and do publish false information.

On 10/6/2009 The PBS channel had a program on The History Channel.

In this particular segment a southern city had placed a marker where a bridge was destroyed and where General Sherman crossed on a pontoon bridge.

This particular place was arrived at by engineers and maps.

The crossing took place less than 100 years before the marker was placed.

One of the local guys observed that there were giant cut stones along the river bank in an entirely different location and believed the marker was wrong.

After involving the History Detectives and an investigation following, the city authorities said ooops and changed the marker.

Why it took an investigation I am not sure. When there were giant stones weighing tons on the river bank and in the river, a little deduction would leave little doubt of what was on top of those foundation stones.

I suppose the resistance would be the lemmings not wanting to rock the boat of the experts?

In less than 100 years, with experts at hand, false information was expelled.

Egyptology research is difficult in the beginning when it is based on actual information that DOES exist.

(M) Josephus ... Mythology should be like a fart in the wind which quickly passes and is not smelled again.

As the Englehart Journal which reported the stripes were painted by forgers, it should be stored on the same shelf as Josephus.

=============================

To begin to consider what the Egyptians wrote, you would need to first see it, transcribe it, then translate it.

If the surface of Egyptology to be scratched, mythology must be identified, labeled and then ignored.

zendz

The-Joseph-Stela-Transcribed

2009-09-07T19:13:00.000-07:00

The-Joseph-Stela-Transcribed
This hypothetical stela had 18 lines.

1 An image was made of it to scale.

2 The full scale image then had reference numbers added to each line.

=============================

The image below is the transcribed text from the photograph. It is an image here, but in the working situation, you would be looking at typed hieroglyphs. Those of you with a program that types Hebrew, Greek, Arabic or Hydrographic fonts, would be looking at typed fonts in the example below.

Recreating the original text using the standard fonts

Top line, the original foreign/ancient text

Directly below is the translation of the ancient text

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ayPPipCUNVY/SqWJXUJd8OI/AAAAAAAAB3Y/dCt2TK6vF6g/s512/Data02.jpg

18 lines in the original ancient text

18 lines of translations

Each line of ancient text has the translation (using the same reference number)

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ayPPipCUNVY/SqWPglKPQpI/AAAAAAAAB3k/XklD1H8ikm0/Data03.jpg

Close up the way it would appear

10 Top typed ancient text using a standard font

10 Below typed translation

If the ancient source was given the title: Josephus Stela and I wanted to point out that there was one female grand daughter that entered into Egypt, my statement would be something like

Josephus Stela:10 Israel had one grand daughter that entered into Egypt

When ever any one has knowledge that exists in the bible, quran, torah ... they quote the source and the location in that source.

Genesis 46:8-26

In my this hypothetical stela, given the official title Joseph Stela, the reference is Josephus Stela:line number where my information exists.

=============================

So far we have two parts completed

A full scale image of the original source with reference numbers added.

A word processor file with fonts to create the same glyphs and below each glyph line is the translation.

Before we get to the translation part, we must do the transcribing part.

zendz

The-Joseph-Stela

2009-09-07T19:09:00.000-07:00

The-Joseph-Stela

(The images here will be small and hard to read, but the purpose here is to explain the process of entering new sources into an international data base.

The actual images are large enough to see, but you will have to download them from the photo album

http://picasaweb.google.com/EncyclopediaEgypt/Hieroglyphics# )

I don't have any hieroglyphic fonts, so this hypothetical story will use Hebrew script.

In this hypothetical tale, when Joseph's brothers entered Egypt, Israel created a stela to record those who entered Egypt from Canaan.

When the stela was discovered, it had cracks and was difficult to read.

The first task in collecting data to enter this information in the international data base

#1 Take the best possible picture with the hieroglyphs being the actual size.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ayPPipCUNVY/SqWJXAg2rCI/AAAAAAAAB3U/yAlvUjYyr4s/Data01.jpg

#2 On the left side of the image of the original source, each line would be numbered. (18 is the last numbered line)

Remember this is a hypothetical image of original text, with reference numbers added to each line.

zendz

STANDARDS-FOR-EGYPTOLOGY-RESEARCH

2009-09-04T12:09:00.000-07:00

STANDARDS FOR EGYPTOLOGY RESEARCH

=============================

How many thousands of researchers will repeat the same research over and over and over.

Wasting their resources to find that which is already found and available.?

In order to sort out endless mis-understandings / confusion:

An International Egyptology Standard

would expedite the needs for all Egyptology researchers to find existing information and to publish their own new information so it can be shared with the world.

=============================

In order for people using different standards to work with other standards, they must use conversion.

In the field of Egyptology there are so many different standards in different phases, it is chaos.

Cubits, Feet, Meters

Celsius, Fahrenheit, Kelvin

Acres, Hectares

The reason why carpenters can go into a house built years ago and find, fix or add new structures is the standards created.

The reason you can go to the store and get plumbing parts to replace your own, is because of parts being made with standard measurements.

When there are optional elements instead of a standard, the flow of information is hampered.

=============================

I would suggest a university in Egypt for the hub of An International Egyptology Standard organization.

Working with other universities around the world, to create an international standard that Egyptologist around the world would base their research on.

=============================

a) Multiple spellings of the same name
b) Different spellings for the same person
c) Different Egyptians with the same names

a) When there are multiple spellings, the standard organization would pick which is the standard

b) When there are different spellings for the same person, the organization would pick the standard.

=============================

car, automobile, motor vehicle

standard, alternate, alternate

=============================

By the creation of an Egyptologist spell checker, any one could use their own word processor and dump their file in the program.

When the word processor encountered an alternate spelling, it would be replaces with the standard.

The man drove his automobile to the next down

would become

The man drove his § car to the next down.

There could be a standard symbol { § what ever} to note the word was replaced with the standard.

=============================

c) When there were more than one Egyptian with the same spelling { Ahmose King/Military man), an alternate name would be assigned as the standard to one of them.

When the spell checker encountered a name that could be two different people, it would pause for the correction

Ahmose the King

Ahmose the military commander.

Just like a regular spell checker you would click on the correct choice.

=============================

PLACES WITH DIFFERENT SPELLINGS OR DIFFERENT NAMES

Not only are the same place given different names or different spellings, but there are also different places with the same names.

The spell checker would perform the same task, replacing alternate spellings with the standard and pausing to allow the author to chose the correct place when two places have the same names.

With this Egyptologist spell checker, it could also add other information to the places.

Information that would take hours in a large text to enter, would be done with the spell checker.

When ever the spell checker encountered the standard or alternate spelling of a place, it would create roll over text giving the global position of that place.

[ Roll over text = text that appears when you place the mouse over a word ]

=============================

STANDARD MAP

Any one who has ever created maps, knows if you try to draw all the detail of lots of places, the text gets so small, it can not be read.

The map I suggest begins with an outline of Egypt with the major locations on it. With pixels representing a particular global position.

When the spell checker created the standard for a place on the map, that place would become a link.

If that link was clicked on, the map would appear with that place in Egypt would appear.

=============================

When future publishers created books ... when professors taught Egyptology, the standard spellings would be taught.

=============================

STANDARD GLYPHS

There are people downloading font software and creating fonts for glyphs daily. By the creation of standard glyphs, made public domain, by all researchers using the same glyph fonts, their hard copies could use finger print technology to be read and the typed text could create a universal ASCII code that could be shared in a common data base.

To get from hieroglyphics to translations, the standard would be created first by transcribing existing hieroglyphics to a computer file.

Once any hieroglyphic had been transcribed, future researchers would not have to view poorly photographed images in an attempt to even figure out which glyphs were on the actual source.

I recently asked about one hieroglyphic source that people are talking about all over the internet. When I finally found some who knew where the source was, they said you could no longer make out the writing.

It appears that most 'Egyptologist' go to tombs or such locations and pick a small area of interest. Before they vanish, it is essential for every remaining hieroglyphic source to be photographed in high definition, or it will be lost forever.

=============================

The Egyptologist standard dictionary I suggest would

* Replace all alternate persons names with the standard

* Give the option of which person it was when more than one person had the same name.

* Replace alternate place names with the standard, give the location of that place in a roll over text.

All of this (and more) could be done after any author finished their work, by simply pasting their text into the dictionary program.

=============================

Below are two working examples. By moving the cursor over the purple/yellow icon, you can see the text.

Hypothetical text entry would be pasted in the dictionary with out the references and come out with the standard words and references.

The Crew Commander Ahmose son of Abana, the justified; he says. I speak to
you, all people.

King Tuts' tomb is in The Valley of the Kings.

It is the same icon but the bottom displays text and can take you to a map.

zendz

Heiroglyphic-Translation-0003

2009-09-01T16:38:00.000-07:00

Heiroglyphic-Translation-0003

In discussions/debates, others often point out my ignorance (what I do not know)

ONLY if my point is based on my assertion of a particular knowledge, in which I am ignorant of, could my ignorance be a relative point.

Recently in a discussion about Egyptology, one pointed out my ignorance of hieroglyphics.

=============================

"If I couldn't read hieroglyphs, I certainly would *not* venture to have any opinions as to just what a tomb scene was or was not all about."

///

Up front, I always admit, I am totally ignorant about translations of hieroglyphs. Now the question, does this ignorance have any bearing on the many other assertions I make about Egyptology.

=============================

I am totally ignorant about French, Russian, Hieroglyphs or Spanish, but I could say:

The French had a revolution in which heads rolled.

A Russian big shot family was murdered.

A guy sailed from Spain to the Americas ...

I could go into some detail, but the point is, I and millions of other people do have extensive information about events that were recorded in a language they are ignorant of because some one who knew how to translate, rendered the information into our own language.

Every thing I write is based on the translations of those who call themselves archeologist/Egyptologist.

If these 'experts' have accurately translated this information, then it would be as silly for me to learn to read German, in order to read a book that has already been translated into English.

The validity of what I write is based on the validity of the translation of the 'experts' who rendered it into English.

It is those "Egyptologist/experts" information that I examine, by their own words/publications.

=============================

When those who communicate in a foreign language are alive and willing to teach their language, learning to translate takes a while.

When those who communicated in another language attempt to hide their meanings or if they are long dead, then learning to translate is a matter of code breaking.

Code breaking consists of (a) finding patterns, (b) finding the same word in different context or if luck prevails (c) finding text of the unknown language with text of a known language (i.e. the Rosette Stone)

=============================

What is the value of some one who had great translation abilities, but what they wrote was based on what some other person wrote on the topic.

IF / WHEN their translation abilities have not been applied to their research/publications, then they have no more merit than any of millions of people who sit in front of a computer to copy and paste information they read off of some one else's web sites.

Of course we all have our own interest. Unless that 'expert' shares our interest they will know only parts of the things we discuss.

Unless they have been to all hieroglyphs, and photographed them all, then their translation abilities have no more knowledge of what Egyptians wrote than you do.

When they get their information from some web site or book, when they have not seen the actual hieroglyph, they are nothing more than any one else who puppets what they have read.

=============================

My topic being the study of "Hyksos", I make the point there are about a dozen hieroglyphic sources used.

The points I make are such as:

The 'experts' say the word Asiatic is used in these multiple sources, but when I ask them to show me the set of glyphs that form the meaning Asiatic, then ask them if the same set of glyphs are used in all references, they do not reply.

Semitic, Asiatic, Hebrew ... depending who I am communicating with, these kind of words keep on popping up .. "The Egyptians called them A, B, C"

When I ask them to

* Identify the source (papyrus, pylon, wall painting, obelisk)

* Show the line and the number of glyphs from the right the word is found over, I can see exactly what the word looks like in hieroglyphs.

When I am told the Egyptians identified them as Asiatic in different sources, I find what the word looks like, then my question is: where is this word Asiatic in all these different sources?

What I am ignorant, does not establish their own knowledge. If they can read hieroglyphs and the word Asiatic is found in multiple sources, then these experts can show us that word.

=============================

Do I assert the Egyptians never had any conflicts with any foreigners? NO

My ignorance is a bottomless pit. Pointing out what I do not know does not establish your own knowledge.

My quest is this:

* If you can point to physical artifacts found that were left in Egypt by foreigners and NOT Egyptians, provide your science that establishes that claim.

* If the Egyptians identified those from the 12th to the 18th dynasty as a population that came from the same place, expert translators, show us the source and the line this information is written on.

* If the Egyptians wrote that foreigners ruled any part of Egypt, expert translators, show us the source and the line this information is written on.

* If the Egyptians identified any of the enemy they fought against as kings, expert translators, show us the source and the line this information is written on.

=============================

I have separated my blog into individual post because I use so many pictures. Any one who will challenge/add to what I have written can start here

http://hyksos-hoax.blogspot.com/2009/07/hys-chariots-horses.html

And at the bottom of each page, click on newer post, to continue to the next post.

=============================

While I have no ability to read hieroglyphs, I know how translation works which I will discuss in the next post.

The bible has nothing to do with Egyptology, but because the intensive interest in the bible by millions of people for centuries, a translation method has been established so any novice can glean the knowledge of the experts.

In the past, only the priest had the text which was written in a language only they understood. It was unlawful to create a bible in a language of the commoners... after all if the commoners could read it for themselves, the top dogs importance would be decreased.

zendz

HYK-Retreat-direction.

2009-08-31T15:09:00.000-07:00

HYK-Retreat direction.
The direction of retreat is not evidence of the point of origin.

=============================

Ahmose drove the Hyksos as far as Sharuhen, which, being at the
southernmost tip of Canaan

The hieroglyph use in the stela for 'Hyksos' is different than the hieroglyph used by Hatshepsut.

The hieroglyph used by Hatshepsut is different than the hieroglyph in Kamose

... There are about a half dozen ancient text said to be speaking about the same population of people and yet NONE of them use the same hieroglyphic words for 'Hyksos' or "Asiatic"

The words used by these Egyptian authors are as different as our English words, Chinese, Mexican, German, Eskimo or Africa ... and yet in all references to any enemy with different hieroglyphic spellings, the experts tell us :

The different hieroglyphic words all mean Asiatic.

The different hieroglyphic words all mean Hyksos?

In our language when we read accounts of encounters with Mexicans, British, Germans, Spaniards.. different words indicate different populations.

How do the experts determine the Egyptians were using all the different spellings to identify the same populations?

=============================

Ahmose drove the Hyksos as far as Sharuhen, which, being at the
southernmost tip of Canaan

Ahmose drove an unidentified group as far as Sharuhen, which, being at the
southernmost tip of Canaan

The lines drawn on the modern map of what is now called Israel, is not the borders of ancient Egypt (which reached into what is now called Israel)

The Sharuhen of many Egyptian maps are on the Sinai peninsula, but the Sharuhen on my Deluxe map maker with all references shows the Sharuhen of Egypt to be located about 100 miles south of Cairo, on the Nile river. (maybe the experts identified the place with the wrong Egyptian city)

Ok according to the Ahmose, the unidentified group was driven to one of these white dots.

=============================

* Being driven in a specific direction does not mean that is where a military group came from. Any one who has read about any battles, can see which direction the retreat was. When one side decides they must retreat, they move in the direction that would get them out of harm's way.

If this an unidentified group was forced to retreat because they were in a losing battle, they could not retreat by going toward the Egyptians.

=============================

Not just the Canaanites, but all the empires/tribes from Syria, Mesopotamia, Saudi Arabia, Hittites... Any army/traders from the north or east of Egypt would have came through the Sinai peninsula (where Ahmoses was said to have driven this unidentified group.

The direction any army retreats to, does NOT identify where they originally came from.

To speculate this unidentified group came from Canaan based on them being driven to Sharuhen, is quite the froggy leap.

Sharuhen would be the gate way to all empires north and east of Egypt

zendz

HYK-Coat-of-many-colors

2009-08-31T10:53:00.000-07:00

Hyk-Coat-of-many-colors

Can "aAmw" be the same as "Hyksos"? In the tomb inscription of the nomarch, Khnumhotep, there are the foreign people are styled "aAmw" and are shown wearing their "coats of many colors". Their leader is called "Abisha", a Semitic name.

///

#1 Is the hieroglyph in the upper left of this image, the word you call "aAmw"?

#2 I was told the word meant foreign rulers. When I asked how they could all be rulers, this particular person changed their translation to foreign ruler and it being a reference to one particular person in the image.

#3 Show which hieroglyph is translated to Abisha?

#4 The party doing the writing were Egyptians (not any outsiders).

NO one has a clue of the multitude of names Egyptians had.

Using the definition of the word Semite to mean one who spoke one of the middle east languages, it would not identify any population but it would be a set that would include All who spoke a middle east language.

There is no such thing as a Semitic name, unless such names are recorded in other lands and are a match.

It was not any foreigners depicted in the image who gave their name.

Any name given was given by Egyptians and what Egyptians decided to call them.

Names given were words that usually had some kind of given meaning.

#5 These were Egyptian (not Semitic) names.

As for the coats of many colors, there are more myths connected to this image.

Myth = information spread with no evidence to verify it. It is the stuff much of Egyptology is made of.

One such story is the image with the different color coats did not exist at the beginning of the 1900s. "The striped clothing" was added after 1900"

The only way to verify such a myth would be to find a photograph of the image before 1900 or have scientist examine the paint.

The point here is not, if the image has been altered or not, but it is the question, are people willing to accept myths only when it fits their agenda?

===========================================

What is the reason to point out "the coats of many colors"?

Genesis 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colors.

The reason to inject the information about the many color coats is an attempt to tie these people in with the Israelites in a bible account. These embellishers leave out the part that not all had such coats, but this was exclusive to one specific person, and in fact when his brothers saw Joseph's exclusive coat ... Genesis 37:4 And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him.

#6 If this hieroglyph means foreign ruler, note they were called foreign rulers when they were only 'immigrants'

#7 This translation is supposed to mean foreign ruler? If this image is supposed to be that of the Israelites migrating to Egypt, they were a family of less than 80 people in the land of the Canaanites... less than 20 male adults who ruled the Canaanites?

#8 We are also told this is an image of the Israelites immigrating from Canaan. The theme of the surrounding images are that of herders/farmers. What part of the hieroglyph states these people were migrating from Canaan?

It appears that some 'researchers' neglect to look at all the images around this one particular segment. No stripped coats, but all dealing with animals/livestock... and for some reason the translations of the surrounding hieroglyphs are ignored ?

If the images do not appear here you might need to go to the album http://picasaweb.google.com/arabisraelites/HYKSOSTRANSCRIPT

zendz

2009-08-28T19:56:00.001-07:00

HYK-Hyksos-Period-References

Rulers / Egyptians who lived during the 'Hyksos' Period

Pylons / Papyrus / Stela / Wall text said to mention the 'Hyksos'

Because of the multiple spellings of the same people, I am not sure what may be a repeat.

If you find any thing out of sequence or missing, let me know.

* All the events that took place with the 'Hyksos' is said to happened between the 12th and 18th Dynasties, so I started at 11 through 18.

* Next is the supposed text written on a papyrus, 300 years after the 'Hyksos' were expelled.

* Finally is the mythical works of Joseph/Manetho that has never existed.

Pink = text that is attributed to Hyksos

=============================

DYNASTY 11 -0100 Inyotef I / Sehertawy - KING 1- 2074-2064 B.C.

DYNASTY 11 -0200 Inyotef II / Wahankh - KING 2 - 2064-2015 B.C.

DYNASTY 11 -0300 Inyotef III / Nakhtnebtepnefer - KING 3 -2015-2007 B.C.

DYNASTY 11 -0400 Montuhotep II / Nebheptre - KING 4 - 2007-1956 B.C.

DYNASTY 11 -0500 Montuhotep III / Sankhkare KING 5 - 1956-1944 B.C.

DYNASTY 11 -0600 Montuhotep IV / Nebtawyre - KING 6 - 1944-1937 B.C.

DYNASTY 12    =============================

DYNASTY 12 -0000 Khnumhotep Nobelman tomb??? in what time slot does this go.. 'Hyksos on the wall.. foreign ruler'

DYNASTY 12 -0100 Sehetepibre - KING 1 - 1937-1908 B.C.

DYNASTY 12 -0200 Kheperkare - KING 2 - 1917-1872 B.C.

DYNASTY 12 -0300 Senwosret - KING 2 - 1875-1840 B.C.

DYNASTY 12 -0400 Amenemhet II / Nubkaure - KING 2/3 - 1875-1840 B.C.

DYNASTY 12 -0500 Senwosret II / Khakheperre - KING 4 - 1842-1836 B.C.

DYNASTY 12 -0600 Khakaure - KING 5 - 1836-1817 B.C.

DYNASTY 12 -0700 Amenemhet III/Nimaatre KING 6 - 1817-1772 B.C.

DYNASTY 12 -0800 Neferusobek/Sobekkare - eighth queen - 1763-1759 B.C.

DYNASTY 13    =============================

DYNASTY 13 -0100 Neferhotep I - 22 KING - 1696-1686 B.C.

DYNASTY 13 -0200 Ay - KING 27 - 1664-1641 B.C.

DYNASTY 14    =============================

DYNASTY 14 -0100 ????

DYNASTY 15    =============================

DYNASTY 15 -0100 Salitis ruler {Hyksos}

DYNASTY 15 -0200 Apepy I {Hyksos}

DYNASTY 15 -0300 Aper/Anati {Hyksos}

DYNASTY 15 -0400 Samuqenu {Hyksos}

DYNASTY 15 -0500 Apachnan/Khian - Ruler 3 {Hyksos}

DYNASTY 15 -0600 Khamudi/Khamudy - last Ruler {Hyksos}

DYNASTY 16    =============================

DYNASTY 16 -0100 ???

DYNASTY 17   =============================

DYNASTY 17 -0100 Taa II/Djehutio/Sekenenre - KING 14

DYNASTY 17 -0200 Kamose/Wadjkheperre - KING 15

DYNASTY 17 -0205 Kamose - INSCRIPTION OF KAMOSE AT KARNAK - Stela

DYNASTY 17 -0210 Kamose - His majesty spoke in his palace to the council of nobles - Stela 2

DYNASTY 18    =============================

DYNASTY 18 -0100 Ahmose KING 1 (Son of Taa)

DYNASTY 18 -0200 Amenhotep I/Djeserkare - KING 2 -1514-1493 B.C.

DYNASTY 18 -0205 Military Ahmose, Son of Abana,  my father being a soldier of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Sekenenre, Looks like the military Ahmoses' father served under Sekenekre?

DYNASTY 18 -0210 Military Ahmose, Son of Abana - "I conveyed King Djeserkare, the justified" Looks like the military Ahmose was around after the king Ahmose?

DYNASTY 18 -0300 Thutmose I/Akheperkare - KING 3 - 1493-1481 B.C.

DYNASTY 18 -0400 Thutmose II

DYNASTY 18 -0500 Maatkare - KING? - 1473-1458 B.C.

DYNASTY 18 -0600 Hatshepsut, Queen 5 -

DYNASTY 18 -0605 Hatshepsut the "Speos Artemidos," a rock cut temple for Pakhet, an aspect of the lioness goddess Sekhmet. It is here that the female pharaoh, Hatshepsut, made her declaration denouncing the Hyksos

DYNASTY 18 -0700 Thutmose III

DYNASTY 18 -0800 Amenhotep II/Akheperure - KING 7 - 1427-1392 B.C.

DYNASTY 18 -0900 Nebmaatre - KING 9 - 1382-1344 B.C.

DYNASTY 18 -1000 Akhenaten/Aten - KING 10

DYNASTY 18 -1100 Tutankhamun/Nebkheprure - KING 12 -1336-1327 B.C.

DYNASTY 18 -1200 Horemheb/Djeserkheperure - KING 14 - 1323-1295 B.C.

DYNASTY 19   =============================

DYNASTY 19 -0100 ???

DYNASTY 20    =============================

DYNASTY 20 -0100 Unknown author 1200 BC "Turin King's List" / Bernadino Drovetti, purchaced the papyrus

DYNASTY 31    =============================

DYNASTY 31 -0100 Manetho an Egyptian priest who wrote in the Greek language, probably for Ptolemy I (305–282 B.C) {King's list}

DYNASTY XX    =============================

DYNASTY XX -0100 Josephus, Flavius - 37-101 AD, mythical Jewish author in which all accounts written, are not copies of Josephu's work, because it never existed.

DYNASTY YY    =============================

DYNASTY YY -0100 Bernadino Drovetti - Turin King's List - papyrus

HYK-Empire-vs-immigrant-farmer-herders

2009-08-25T17:33:00.000-07:00

Empire vs immigrant farmer herders

What is recorded in the hieroglyphs of the north in the period the Hyksos are said to have ruled?

=============================

No historian believes that the 'Hyksos ruled Egypt'......their power was limited to Lower Egypt, specifically the Delta areas, for most of their 'rule'......Most of the ancient area of Egypt was actually 'ruled' by the Theban nobility, which can be traced to ancient Nekhen.
The 'Hyksos' [anglicized transliteration] may have lived in the delta area for 100 yrs., but they never 'ruled' all of Egypt at any time

///

* If you looked at the tombs of northern Egypt in the time line when the 'Hyksos' were said to have ruled, who did the Egyptians who lived in that period write about on their walls?

* If you looked at the list of all the Egyptian Kings that existed during the time period when the 'Hyksos' were supposed to be there, how many Egyptian rulers would you find between the 12th and 18th Dynasty?

Tracking who ruled in what dynasty is hard because there are so many spellings and different names for the same ruler, but here is a list from one site

http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/History/ruler/080900000000000018.htm

Other than Egyptian rulers there are named military leaders, the names of people in the royalty ... You can't be part of any royalty unless you are connected to some kind of kingdom. You can't be the military leader unless you serve some nation.

In northern Egypt.. in the period of the supposed Hyksos, how many Egyptian tombs record the existence of Egyptian kings, Egyptian royalty, Egyptian military leaders in northern Egypt?

( Here I am on a fishing trip. If the evidence of Egyptian rule in the north during this period is recorded by Egyptians, then those who know such things will be able to issue this challenge)

=============================

ROUGE IMMIGRANTS THAT GOT SLAPPED DOWN?

As far as I have seen, these enemy recorded in different time lines and different places have no evidence connecting them. Their ideas may have been like a segment of immigrants who came to America, joined with those of like mind and hoped to cut out a portion of the land to create their own state.

EGYPTIANS MOVE THEIR HUB SOUTH?

After the grave robbers broke into fortified places such as the pyramids, it appears that the Egyptian rulers moved their power south.

When the political hub exist in one area, their tentacles place royal representatives in other areas to rule in their behalf.

Pylons, stela, tombs ... of northern Egypt, in the time line of the 'Hyksos', Did the Egyptians record accounts of Egyptian rulers, royalty, military leaders who thrived in the north, during the supposed period of the Hyksos control?

You who know of the content of the hieroglyphs of northern Egypt, in this time line can respond to this. IF records of Egyptian rulers in control of northern Egypt during 'the Hyksos period', then be sure to let me know.

=============================

Alexandria vs Immigrants
Empire vs immigrant farmer herders

Alexander for example, conquered many cities yet continued to leave the original government (subjected to him of course) in power to continue their rule.

I think the bottom line for most of these types of invaders was that they were to receive the taxes and fealty in place of the last sorry sucker who was in charge.

///

In the example of Alexandria, you are correct. That is how empires worked.

a) They would move into an area ... if there was no resistance, then they would keep or place their puppet leaders local government to send payments to the empire hub.

b) They would take healthy men from those areas to build up their military and move on to the next place.

... The snow ball would keep on rolling and the empire would keep growing.

---------------------------------------------------

In the accounts of the 'Hyksos' they were not an empire, but they were settlers, shepherds/herders.

They did not take control by military force, but they brought their families and their clans lived in the land of Egypt.

Alexandria story = an account of an expanding empire
VS
Hyksos story = an account of a mass migration of families that settled in Egypt to work with their own hands, raise their flocks/live stock and live off the land.

zendz

Siege does NOT equal Rule

2009-08-25T12:22:00.000-07:00

Siege does NOT equal Rule

=============================

Assyria, Babylon, the Greeks, the Romans ruled Egypt.. yes, but they are not the invaders/enemy that is included in this challenge.

The challenge here is that 'the Hyksos ruled Egypt for over 100 years' .

=============================

Being under siege by an enemy
Does NOT mean a nation is ruled by that enemy

... In the last 300 years The British has been involved in over 90 wars.

The question is: does invasion, attack, war, siege, battles... equate to being ruled

A lot of Britain wars involved naval battles ( Like the accounts of Kamose indicate he was involved in Naval battles.)

France, Germany, Holland, Ireland, Portugal, Spain ...

In about the same number of years "The Hyksos were supposed to have ruled Egypt", the British were also fighting their enemy on their own soil and at sea.

Does invasion, attack, war, siege, battles... equate to Britain being ruled by those they fought against?

=============================

The Stela of Kamose is often used to show that Avaris was the Hyksos capital.

The stela of Kamose does not give state any where that Avaris was the Hyksos capital and NOR does the Egyptian text identify the enemy at Avaris as Hyksos

NO where does any Egyptian text state the Hyksos ruled any part of Egypt.

The stela of Kamose does state that Avaris was a location where a siege took place and continued for several years.

The enemy was not identified as Hyksos. The only information is it was in the area of Avaris and Kamose was sent to fight on a ship.

* The British was under the siege of the Germans for years ... being attacked.. being under siege does not mean, that Germany ruled Britain.

NO WHERE does any Egyptian text state any part of Egypt was ruled by outsiders.

NO WHERE does any Egyptian text state any part of Egypt was ruled by any internal uprising.

During this time line, the Egyptian records show nothing but the Egyptians fighting off some unidentified enemy.

.

The Egyptians NEVER identified the origins of the enemy.

.

There is nothing to indicate that conflicts recorded decades apart, are with the same enemy. (such an assumption would like some one reading the accounts of the British wars 3000 years from now, and assuming those mentioned in accounts of different times were always the same enemy)

.

The Egyptian records NEVER state that any enemy ruled any part of Egypt.

=============================

Egyptian text does state, Ahmose:

* I grew up in the town of Nekheb, my father being a soldier of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt.."

* I have grown old; I have reached old age. Favoured as before, and loved [by my lord], I [rest] in the tomb that I myself made....in Behy. Again I am given by the King of Upper and Lower Egypt ... 60 arura in Hadjaa. In sum ... arura.

In the time line when the experts say the 'Hyksos' ruled northern Egypt, Ahmose said

* His father was a soldier of the King of northern and southern Egypt

* Ahmose said the Egyptian king of northern and southern Egypt gave him 60 arura.

.

.

During the period 'modern experts' say the Hyksos ruled northern Egypt, an Egyptian (Ahmose) who was there in the middle of the events, recorded that an Egyptian King ruled northern and southern Egypt !

=============================

NO one but the Egyptians text records any of the conflicts.

The Egyptians did NOT write any enemy ruled northern Egypt

The Egyptians did NOT write any enemy had Avaris as their capital.

The Egyptians did write there was a siege of Avaris (in which the Egyptians won in the end).. and

In the time of these conflicts, the Egyptian text does identify an Egyptian king as the king of northern and southern Egypt.

=============================

Always the same guys Assertion
RECORDED EVENTS OF PEOPLE
IN CONFLICTS
IN DIFFERENT DECADES/CENTURIES
ARE RECORDS OF EVENTS
INVOLVING THE SAME PEOPLE

In order to accept the concept that all the recorded conflicts of the Egyptians were describing events with the same clan/tribe/people, you would have to accept the (Always the same guys Assertion)

In spite of the fact that the enemy recorded in different decades, in different areas of Egypt had different names, the place of origins are NEVER given, the 'experts' identify all of them as 'Hyksos'?

=============================

Because we live in the time line where names are known and we can associate them with specific groups, this example will not work by using their actual names.

Let's jump forward 3,000 years and let our descendants read about the events that took place in our time. For this story to work, we will change their names with names that are not known in the future.

Here Egypt will be replaced with America. Those living in other countries need only exchange such events with those that took place in your own country.

On the walls of a tomb, we see the image of Lgneish immigrating on the shores of America from a foreign land.

In another century we read on the walls of another tomb about a great conflict of the established government and an enemy leader named RELEB was wounded.

In a stela found in northern America, an American fighter named Komo revealed that America had a great conflict with Dancaa

On the walls of our a tomb an enemy of the established government named Sirhi.

In another decade we read on the walls about a great conflict with the Xscnaim which lasted several years.

A hundred years later in another' tomb, an account of a Gcnevgen attack on two American palaces.

=============================

In our story we started with the first name Lgneish then followed with other names in other conflicts in other periods of time. Lgneish, RELEB, Dancaa, Xscnaim, Gcnevgen

Are we to assume that all other conflicts involving people of different names, in different places and different times, are all from the first (Lgneish) identified person?

Lgneish English landed on American shores

RELEB Confederate were a composite of all people who immigrated here

Dancaa Canada/British war

Xscnaim Mexican/American war

Gcnevgen Arab revenge attack on the twin towers.

=============================

After looking at one image in a tomb and some expert translating the word to Hyksos... these 'experts'

Use Egyptian text with out the word Hyksos, text with different names, in different conflicts, in different places, in different periods of time.. and identify them all as Hyksos.

With out a pure concoction, with out the information stated in the text, there is

NO way to know if they were the same people

NO way to know where they came from

NO way to know if/which conflicts were internal conflicts.

Egypt had encountered people from all sides for centuries and there is no way to know which of an array of tribes/empires they encountered in any of the multiple conflicts that spanned over centuries.

The only enemy of the Egyptians that are identified as Hyksos, can only be verified in hieroglyphs that the word Hyksos is written.

=============================

Ahmose drove out the Hyksos?

a) Show an image of the stela/wall painting/ancient source in which the enemy are identified as Hyksos.

b) Show the line in which the word that translates to Hyksos is found.

c) Is it written that Ahmose drove out 'the Hyksos' or is this assertion based on the concoction of imagination?

=============================

You can NOT tie any conflicts or enemy of the Egyptians with the Hyksos, unless there is information in the text that gives evidence of their connection to the Hyksos.

Lgneish, RELEB, Dancaa, Xscnaim, Gcnevgen .. accounts of people with different names, in different time periods does not mean they are the same people.

The multiple events the Egyptians recorded through the centuries with people of different names and different places, does NOT indicate the enemy were always the same people.

The enemy that Ahmose or Kamose are NOT identified as Hyksos. There is no way to connect any enemy in one decade/century with the enemy of another decade/century.

* Except the name of an enemy leader there is no identification of that enemy.

* No where does the Egyptian writers identify the named enemy as a king or a ruler. The assertion that these named enemy were kings, is a concoction. No such information exists in the Egyptian text.

* NO where did the Egyptians write Avaris was the capital of the Hyksos, nor did they identify the enemy at Avaris as Hyksos.

* NO where did the Egyptians record that the Hyksos (any enemy) ruled any part of Egypt.

* The Egyptians did write they fought against an enemy that lay siege on Egyptian cities... and that the outcome was that enemy were driven out.

* In the time period when modern experts say 'the Hyksos ruled northern Egypt', the Egyptian authors who existed in that time, wrote that an Egyptian king was ruler of southern and northern Egypt.

=============================

#1 Show the text that identifies enemy of different decades/centuries as being from the same origins as enemy in text of different decades/centuries with different names.

#2 Show the text where the enemy the Egyptians fought against are identified as Hyksos.

#4 Show the Egyptian text where the named enemy are identified as kings.

#5 Show the Egyptian text where Avaris was the capital of the Hyksos/enemy

#6 Show the Egyptian text where the Hyksos/enemy ruled any part of Egypt.

These 6 myths are repeated over and over while the ignore the Egyptian text that does state an Egyptian was the ruler of upper and lower Egypt.

=============================

So the Egyptian text does not identify any enemy as a ruler, it does not state Avaris was the capital, it does not identify the enemy as Hyksos, it does identify an Egyptian as ruler of northern and southern Egypt..

Next question: Does the place the enemy were driven to, verify where they originally came from?

zendz

HYK-Junior-sends-grandma-a-letter

2009-08-20T17:09:00.000-07:00

HYK-Junior-sends-grandma-a-letter

If you read about events that took place in ancient Egypt, there is usually a time line connected to events.

It took place, so many years BC <> BCE or a particular dynasty.

As you read about Egypt's interaction with a particular outside empire, there are dates associated with those chain of events.

It does not matter when any middle east empire was formed, those lands had human populations, before, during and after the formation of the empire.

On the map below, the arrows show where other populations came to Egypt from and each arrow location could be dozens of separate tribes or nations.

=============================

On one web page, some one created a time line of the Predynastic Period, being around 3100 BC.

Around 1700 BC, this particular page has the Hyksos entering Egypt. That would be about 1400 years from early Egypt, until the Hyksos were supposed to enter Egypt.

Let's be extra conservative and say the Egyptian dynasties began 1000 years before the Hyksos entered.

In the thousand years before the Hyksos entered, Egypt was surrounded with populations of different tribes or nations on every side.

Egypt's existence and encounter with outsiders does not begin with the Hyksos story.

=============================

With in each established empire, there were an array of tribes.

The birth of an empire begins with a group/tribe that hooks up with another tribe or takes them by force.

As the empire expands, it moves on to a new population. If there is a resistance, the battles are on and at the end, the aggressors put the remaining males into their own military.

The common population is left to create food and wealth to contribute to the empire.

=============================

No matter if the surrounding populations had yet formed an empire, Egypt was encircled with foreigners, before and after the mythical Hyksos were supposed to have entered.

In modern times we have fences, airplanes, hundreds of cities along our southern borders in the USA, and yet thousands of Mexicans illegally cross our borders every year.

IF the Egyptians had some kind of assets that enticed foreigners to come, the mythical Hyksos would have only been a small fraction of outsiders to migrate there.

=============================

As for Egyptians using words like Semitic, Asiatic or Levant, these are modern words in which the Egyptians would have no such meaning.

http://hyksos-hoax.blogspot.com/2009/08/hyk-semites-asians-hebrews.html No such meanings in the Egyptian vocabulary.

These words are based on a world map or the Bible. The 'Egyptologist' that translated any Egyptian words to Semitic, Asiatic or Levant, would be ignorant of the knowledge available to the ancient Egyptians.

============================

Egypt was surrounded with multiple tribes or empires. The fact that an empire was not formed at a particular time has nothing to do with the fact that Egypt was surrounded with foreigners.

The difference in now and historic Egypt is they had no fences, they had no planes, there were hundreds of square miles of un populated areas.

IF Egypt had any assets that drew foreigners to their land, it would not have just been 'Hyksos' but they would have been foreigners from every side.

It is not like they would need a passport, there were no check points, it would be as easy as walking through an un populated area.

Why do these 'archeologist' utter the word Canaanites in their mythical 'Hyksos' group?

Dutch, French, Polish, Germans, Italians, Russians, Norwegians, Spaniards ... NO, none of them came to America, right?

In the migration to North America, only the British came, right?

If people from other lands think there is something to gain in other places, they will migrate from every where.

What was Egypt supposed to have that made foreigners want to migrate there? I do not have a clue, but if there was some thing to gain by migrating to Egypt, the foreigners would have migrated from all the lands surrounding Egypt.

The idea that only Canaanites would be included in a migration is quite humorous.

.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_rb3EfVqqMWI/So2d7e40bnI/AAAAAAAAEJk/JMoYukt4ABg/TRIBES.jpg

Through the centuries before the migration of the mythical Hyksos, Egypt had traded with, been at war with and interacted with tribes/empires around it. Egypt would have been infested with foreigners from lands on all sides, so when you read about Egyptians having a conflict with any non Egyptian, how could you possibly identify where those enemy originally came from?

=============================

At his visit to Disney Land, Junior encountered dozens of different characters. When he got home, he sent grandma a letter telling all about those he encountered. The problem was Junior did not use the names in the accounts he told.

=============================

Pretending all of these characters were real

#1 He danced and around and made me giggle.

#2 He swam out on the pond.

#3 He ran up the hill and rolled back down.

#4 He landed on top of a telephone pole.

#5 He stole the peanut and took it up the tree.

#6 He rode around on a golf cart.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rb3EfVqqMWI/So2d7nvCcdI/AAAAAAAAEJo/A2zyq-Fi0hw/WHOSWHO.jpg

While there were no names to identify which character did these things, 3 of the descriptions give a hint who it could be.

Three of the accounts do not even give a hint of which character it is.

With out the actual character being identified in any way, why would any one pick one of the characters and assume, all events are speaking about one specific character?

When no specific character is ever identified, isn't it possible, that the different events described are about different characters that Junior encountered?

=============================

That is exactly what these 'experts' do with the Hykso story. They take different text that happened in different time periods, Letters which DO NOT IDENTIFY what tribes/nations they came from, and identify them all as Hyksos/Canaanites.

* In all accounts of Egyptian conflicts, how many of those letters identify the enemy as Hyksos?

* In all accounts of Egyptian conflicts, how many of those letters do not identify the enemy as Hyksos?

* In all accounts of Egyptian conflicts in which the enemy is identified, how many are identified as people other than Hyksos?

=============================

Why do these 'experts' assert the UN Identified enemy of the Egyptians are any one they can put a name on?

It is called the power of suggestion. It is pre-conceived ideas they are brainwashed with. With out any actual identification at all, every time an enemy is mentioned, it is always the same enemy and every time that enemy is the Hyksos.

It would be like Junior mentioning in his letter that he shook hands with Goofy and when grandma read the letter, she would assume every encounter Junior described, was a description of events that took place with Goofy.

There is a whole bunch of characters at Disney Land and there was an array of tribes and nations that the Egyptians encountered.

When any letter describes events and does not identify who the encounter was with, only one with pre-conceived beliefs would jump to the conclusion of the identity.

Only Canaanites migrated to Egypt

The Egyptians only had conflicts with Canaanites

IF the Egyptian letters do not identify people in conflicts or where they came from, then those who inject an identification are not scientist, they are just plain GOOFY !

In all of the named 'Hyksos' rulers from Egyptian text written in the time of the said events, please list all the Egyptian text that identifies their enemy as Hyksos.

zendz

HYK-Egyptian/Asian-Burials

2009-08-17T10:14:00.000-07:00

HYK-Egyptian/Asian-Burials

So "archeologist varify Hyksos were in Egypt, based on the manner they were buried"?

=============================

I started my inquiry with e-mails or post to Egyptology groups:

I used to think all Egyptians were mummified, but now it appears that only the rich and royals were mummified most of the time. Even some of them were not.

I have read of massive graves, ranging from the north to the south of Egypt, where people were just wrapped in cloth and put in wooden boxes.
Being wrapped in cloth and buried was also done in Europe.

#1 Do you have any examples of grave yards through out Egypt, where the majority were never mummified?

#2 I also remember something about the Romans in Egypt being mummified. Got any details on this ?

Thanks

=============================

How were the average Egyptians buried?

cemeteries / mastaba of the non royals.

http://www.guardians.net/hawass/articles/a_celebration_of_100_Years_of_the_Egyptian_Museum.htm

.

Women were generally buried with their husbands... Many of the skeletal remains were found in wooden coffins, although still not mummified.

=============================

When we read the 'Hyksos' tales, it is repeated over and over how the 'Hyksos' tried to assimilate to the culture of the Egyptians.

If this were the case, wouldn't some of the Hyksos be mummified?

http://www.karkoor.com/en/tag/human

The word "mummy" comes from an Arabic word for a black gooey stuff. Mummification was not limited to Egyptians. Greeks and Romans were also mummified.

///

There is extensive records to show the Greeks and Romans actually did rule Egypt .. and we find that those who ruled Egypt, adopted mummification for themselves... so why not the 'Hyksos"?

=============================

Boy mummy in this article on the composite image, upper right

http://erl.wustl.edu/research/imseg/mummy.html

St. Louis Science Center Mummy

It is likely that the mummified boy lived during the time when Egypt was a province of the Roman Empire, possibly under the rule of Caesar Augustus. He was probably from a middle class family who could easily afford a good quality of mummification.

Egyptian religious beliefs were adopted by some of the Romans, and it is possible that both Egyptians and Romans were mummified. Egypt served as the grain basket of the Roman Empire

=============================

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/gizavillage.htm

Many tombs, most less than a few feet square, were made of mud, rubble and leftover stones from the pyramid construction. Some have miniature false doors, and in some, statues were found. But most are anonymous and without grave goods, and the bodies were not mummified

=============================

I don't know where they get their information, but on lots of pages it states mummification was very expensive and took a long time.

It would be my guess that the common Egyptians had no wealth, except that of housing and available food.

When they showed the graves of the pyramid workers, even they were not mummified.

There are massive cemeteries / mastaba from the extreme north to the extreme south of Egypt, filled with Egyptians who were never mummified.

=============================

We are told they can prove the Hyksos were in Egypt by the difference in burial practices?

* If Hyksos (like the Greeks and Romans) adopted the culture of the Egyptians, wouldn't those Hyksos have been mummified?

.

* As for identifying "Hyksos" by their burial practices, what I have read so far, 'Egyptologist' have not found the grave on one 'Hyksos ruler" ?

* If ---> SOME Egyptians were mummified and ----> there were a multitude of Egyptians who were NEVER mummified, then how would finding graves of un-mummified dead, prove they were Hyksos?

zendz

HYK-Asiatic-names.BS

2009-08-16T10:40:00.000-07:00

HYK-Asiatic-names.BS

SOUNDS OF EGYPTIAN NAMES

No one on earth has a clue of what any Egyptian word sounded like. We have 26 characters in our alphabet, which make different sounds. (even s and c have similar sounds)

I thought there were about 800 characters in hieroglyphs, but that was only in a program you could buy. According to what others have written, there are between 1500 and 2500 glyphs (characters) in hieroglyphs

26 characters sum up about every sound humans can make. I can't imagine there being 2000 different sounds for each Egyptian glyph.

The word Pharaoh in our language, may have sounded like HokiePokie in the Egyptian language.

Only cons would actually show an Egyptian word and make a sound the Egyptians used when saying that word.

No one on earth has a clue of what any Egyptian word or name sounded like.

=============================

TRANSLATION / CODE BREAKING

Translation is based on the known. Code breaking is a process FINDING PATTERNS.

The only way to find a way to translate an unknown language is to find patterns in the symbols. The stone found by the French was the key to open the door to hieroglyphics.

You can not deduct an unknown word means any thing, unless you know the meanings of some of the words in the context.

By seeing the unknown word several times in different context, they deduct the meaning of the word.

Who ever rendered the 'Hyksos' word or the names of any of the 'Hyksos' had to have seen that word in the context of multiple hieroglyphics.

IF the first guy got it right, those university students do not go through the process of decoding the meaning of the word.

They accept any thing they are told and that hearsay information becomes their 'facts'. It is these students who become archeologist/Egyptologist and on the basis of their status, the groupies of the world accept all they say as the gospel.

=============================

For those who would check the work of the 'experts', you might go to the source and see if you can see HOW they deduced the meaning of any word.

You can't just pick a word and assign a meaning to it. There must be some thing in the context that indicates the meaning of that word, BEFORE any one after that can look at it and assign it a meaning.

In an example of Hyksos = foreign ruler ... a compound meaning, it would appear one part of that segment would mean foreign and the other part would mean ruler.

Are any parts of the 'word Hyksos' ever used in Egyptian writing to mean foreign or ruler?

=============================

The next problem in the translation of hieroglyphics is the random education.

Today in our countries, we have uniform standards placed in books and taught universally through out the nation.

In the days of Eddy Egyptian, only a few select were educated. There was no center that created a universal standard, so even code breakers would have a problem comparing text from different time lines.

=============================

Asiatic, Egyptians had no such identifications for any one.

Semite / Hebrew / Asiatic / Levant ... no such meaning in the language of the ancient Egyptian, no more than they had words that meant computer or rocket.

Asian/Asiatic is a term based on the mapping of the world. Asiatic identifies populations of the world, that the Egyptians had no way of knowing their existence.

Semite being the identification of people who spoke a middle east language, every one in the middle east was a Semite and there were MANY "Semitic" languages.

The Egyptians did not use the term Semite to identify any specific population.

Semite / Hebrew / Asiatic / Levant ... The Egyptians had no such meanings.

By the definition of Levant, the Egyptians were Levants themselves.

Translation is the process of rendering meanings into the target language. The "English language translations" given to the Egyptian hieroglyphs were meanings that did not exist in ancient Egypt.

=============================

The only way to establish specifically who the Egyptians were talking about is:

* If the Egyptians gave land marks that exist in only one area of the middle east.

* If the Egyptians wrote about an event that took place with a certain people ... and in another empire, there also existed text about such an event with the Egyptians.

No matter what English word any hieroglyphic is rendered to.. Semite / Asiatic / Levant, the actual hieroglyph can only indicate they were talking about some one other than Egyptians. These translations do not identify who the persons were, but who they were not.. Semite / Asiatic / Levant = NON Egyptian, no other specifics exist.

=============================

We are to believe these people lived with the Egyptians for centuries, tried to assimilate, learned the language of the Egyptians, were driven out... then where ever they landed, they left no records of their ancestor's tour of Egypt, nor did they leave any hieroglyphic text?

It seems that these people who brought 'advanced technology" to Egypt didn't have any language of their own. The only thing they produced were scarab, but ALL INFORMATION WRITTEN ABOUT THESE PEOPLE, WAS WRITTEN BY THE EGYPTIANS.

According to the 'Egyptologist' tale of the Hyksos, they stunk to the Egyptians. The Egyptians were not inviting them to their tea parties or hanging out on the golf course... they were despised.

* The only information written about these people, was written by the Egyptians.

* The Egyptians who wrote about them, despised them ... ok then, where did the Egyptians get the names of these 'Hyksos"?

* The names give to any 'Hyksos' were not names the 'Hyksos' had given themselves, but they were names given by the Egyptians. These were not Hyksos names, but Egyptian symbols to create the Egyptian identity of the outcast.

=============================

Before any one could establish that these were names of Canaanites, they would have to first dig up the text or grave markers of ancient Canaanites with the same names.

The names of these outcast were assigned by the Egyptians, not the outcast.

By the time the Hyksos story was supposed to have taken place, there were millions of Egyptians who lived. You nor I nor any one else has a clue of what their names were.

Names of the past were not pat like common last names, and a list of shared first names.

Names had romantic or meanings to reflect pride or identity. This kind of naming system also existed through out Europe, and in the native Americans.

You might do a search on name origins. The names Egyptians gave to themselves and to others, had some kind of meaning.

IF the Egyptians had been in bloody battles with some enemy for decades and that ruler was known, the Egyptians were not about to invite him over to see how he spelled his name.

Names such as Apachnan (outcast rulers) were not names written by those outcast. All words given to outcast rulers by Egyptians were Egyptian names ! Egyptian words !

The assertion "they did not use Egyptian names, they used Asiatic names", is enough to make one giggle, seeing how these names were Egyptian words, assigned by Egyptians.

=============================

Are names exclusively given ONLY to descendants of a particular ancestor?

Ishmael (2 Kings 25:23)

Ishmael, a member of the royal family of Judah, son of Nethaniah and grandson of Elishama Ishmael = a descendant of Judah

Pashchur (Jeremiah 20:1)

Pashchur, son of Immer, was the priest in charge of the Temple = a Levite

Ishmael (Ezra 10:22)

Ishmael, a priest, was a descendant of Pashch. Ishmael =a Levite

Ishmael (Genesis 16:11)

Ishmael was the son of Abraham and his Egyptian concubine Hagar, Sarah's maid. Ishmael = a Chaldean/Egyptian descendant.

Are names exclusively given ONLY to descendants of a particular ancestor, or are names taken by people of different tribes or nations?

Greek, native American, mythical characters ... people give their children the names of foreigners or mythical characters that never existed.

=============================

What could an "Asiatic name" possibly be?

According to the Hyksos myth, these foreigners lived among the Egyptians for several centuries before the civil war started.

Civil war? Yes, according to the story, these people "migrated into Egypt, hung out for centuries, then the civil wars began."

It was not a massive invasion from people of a foreign land. The concept would be like Mexicans coming to America, producing families for centuries then trying to take over.

According to the 'Hyksos' story, these people attempted to assimilate into the Egyptian culture, adopting their gods, their language...

If there was any such thing as an "Egyptian name" wouldn't the Hyksos take on their names, like people who come to America from Poland or Africa and adopt the names of the locals?

I'll bet there were not many Washington Irvings, or Mary White, Negroes in Africa, but look in the phone book and see what names they give themselves today.

If the 'Hyksos' lived in Egypt for several centuries and tried to assimilate, any names they used may have came from Egyptians.

=============================

How could they speculate these were the names used in a foreign land, unless the same names are found in those foreign lands?

Names of the day had some kind of meanings. It was the Egyptian text that reveals what the Egyptians called them. One might speculate the names given to the outcast by the Egyptians may have been derogatory.

Apepy (Greek: Apopis) from the Egyptian word stinky poo ?

What ever, no one has a clue of the names used by millions of Egyptians nor the names used by the millions of Canaanites. There is no such thing as an Asiatic name, especially when the names in question were names given by the Egyptians.

zendz

HYK-Hyksos Images-00

2009-08-15T14:05:00.000-07:00

HYK-Hyksos Images-00

From one web page the author wrote: Note: There are no known statues of Hyksos Kings, all such are Bogus!

Not only do people concoct or altar images, they also copy actual images from ancient Egypt and change the information that identifies the pictures.

Here I have collected some images / artifacts where those shown are identified as Hyksos.

If you know what museum or location any of these exist, let me know.

If you know any thing about them, I have them numbered for your reference

EncEg_Hyksos-owner@yahoogroups.com

zendz

HYK-Hyksos-Verification-or-Nullification

2009-08-14T07:57:00.000-07:00

HYK-Hyksos-Verification-or-Nullification

My ol daddy used to say, if you throw enough shit on the ceiling, some of it will stick.

The lesson being, no matter how worthless information is, if enough of it is blabbed, sooner or later, people will begin to believe it.

This appears to be the method of "Egyptologist", when they assert foreigners ruled ancient Egypt.

This papyrus, that stone tablet or the painting on that wall states the Hyksos ruled Egypt.

If they throw enough rumors out there to the public, it will stick, it has stuck.

=============================

When there are many areas where some thing could be hidden, RANDOM SAMPLING can be used.

If you hear of multiple sources of hieroglyphs revealing the Hyksos ruled Egypt, just pick one of them and check it out.

If you are reading this, you are reading the English language. No matter if you do or do not read hieroglyphs, when you read the assertions about what is written in the hieroglyphs, you are reading it in the English language, so how do you know if what you are reading in the English language actually exists in the hieroglyphs?

=============================

Almost all of the people who write this stuff about Hyksos have no ability to read hieroglyphs. All of these web page / book parrots, only repeat what they have read.

IF the persons at the top of the chain, those who made the translations that thousands parrot ....

IF the persons who translated that information to English, can actually translate hieroglyphs, they can show their work ( just like you were required to show your work in solving math problems in school), if these "Egyptologist" have actually made a valid translation, they can show you how they arrived at that translation.

As far as any one claiming to know what the ancient Egyptian language sounded like that is laughable. There is a sound we associate with the letters of the alphabet.. 26 characters. Do you suppose the Egyptians had a different sound for their hundreds of characters... Duh !

The only thing I disagree is the changing of sequence in translation from left to right. I think it would be easy to read right to left and would be good practice for any one who might attempt to read hieroglyphs.

I found a great example of how a hieroglyphic transcribe could show their work on a PBS web site. (except I kept the translation reading from right to left)

=============================

a) IF / When any one stated any particular hieroglyphic source stated any information, they would have to have seen an image of it or the original piece.

b) They could tell you where that original hieroglyph is now (if it was movable)

The hieroglyphic might have lots of information not relative to the point or assertion

c) The lines of the hieroglyphic would have to be numbered and extracted, line at a time to be translated.

d) They could show the line where that information is written:

On Line #5, reading right to left, the glyphs on this line

Below the full line of glyphs on that line, the word translation for each cluster

At the bottom the translation of the clusters combined (right to left)

... you never will I

=============================

Now in the random sampling, write down the assertions or points being made that you are investigating.

* The Hyksos settled in northern Egypt.

* The Hyksos ruled northern Egypt.

(a) Show us an image of the original hieroglyph, (b) tell us where the original exists today, (c) number the lines, (d) show me the lines where this information is written.

=============================

When you see the original hieroglyphs and it's translation to your own language, then consider what the meaning is in your own language.

The act of an invasion or war, does not define who rules a land area. It only verifies there is a fight over that land.

Iraq invaded Kuwait, but the victorious invasion did not mean that Iraq ruled Kuwait.

The take over of any country is not established until AFTER the original government/population gives up and the outsiders take over and rule the population.

If / When invaders attack, and a war goes on for months, even years, if it is the invaders who are driven out, they were NEVER rulers of that country, they were only invaders.

.

In the stories of the 'Hyksos', we hear they ruled over a century. We do read of fights the Egyptians had with UNIDENTIFIED enemy, but no where do we read that those enemy ever ruled Egypt. This fairy tale comes from the assumption that fighting/invasions means the same thing as ruling.

.

The British migrated to South Africa and ruled the Africans for decades.

.

Germany waged attacks on Britain for multiple years. The fact that there was a war does NOT mean that Germany ruled Britain.

If the outsiders come by migration or by military invasion, in which a war proceeds, those outsiders are NOT rulers based on the fights that follow. If the outsiders are driven out of the land, there were NEVER rulers, only clowns who's attempt to seize power failed.

=============================

"If you throw enough shit on the ceiling, some of it will stick."

If you have been reading about 'Hyksos' for a while you have seen the multiple sources they site to spin their story. You may not be able to look at all of them, so make a random sample.

Pick one hieroglyphic source they site, find an image of the source and some one who claims to read hieroglyphics, then have them show you the exact line which makes this point.

The internet is full of people who talk about events that took place, but if they do NOT read hieroglyphs themselves, they don't know any thing more than you. If they do not read hieroglyphics, they are just puppeting hearsay information from others who are as ignorant about hieroglyphics.

(It is true because some 'expert' said... ) If any one states any events took place in ancient Egypt and there is no hieroglyphics to support that statement, it is nothing but the left overs of the shit that stuck to the ceiling. If that person is an expert, they can show you what hieroglyphic and exactly what line it is written.

Find one person who can show you the actual hieroglyph and the exact lines in that hieroglyph which:

* Identify the people as Hyksos.

* State that Hyksos ruled (not fought) the Egyptians.

~

zendz

HYK-Kamose-2

2009-08-13T14:31:00.000-07:00

HYK-Kamose-2

There appears to be two inscriptions of Kamose.

I will create them with 1 and 2 to separate them

=============================

a) Please show the line in the hieroglyphs that identify these enemy as Hyksos?

b) Please show the line in the hieroglyphic that uses the word Hyksos?

c) Please show the line in the hieroglyphic that states the enemy in the context ruled Egypt.

=============================

Inscription of Kamose - 2

His majesty spoke in his palace to the council of nobles who were in his retinue: 'Let me understand what this strength of mine is for! (One) prince is in Avaris, another is in Ethiopia, and (here) I sit associated with an Asiatic and a Negro! Each man has his slice of this Egypt, dividing up the land with me . . . . No man can settle down, when despoiled by the taxes of the Asiatics. I will grapple with him, that I may rip open his belly! My wish is to save Egypt and to smite the Asiatic!

I went north because I was strong (enough) to attack the Asiatics through the command of Ammon, the just of counsels. My valiant army was in front of me like a blast of fire. The troops of the Madjoi were on the upper part of our cabins, to seek out the Asiatics and to push back their positions. East and west had their fat, and the army foraged for things everywhere. I set out a strong troop of the Madjoi, while I was on the day's patrol . . . to him in . . . Teti, the son of Pepi, within Nefrusi. I would not let him escape while I held back the Asiatics who had withstood Egypt. He made Nefrusi the nest of the Asiatics. I spent the night in my boat, with my heart happy.

When day broke, I was on him as if it were a falcon. When the time of breakfast had come, I attacked him. I broke down his walls, I killed his people, and I made his wife come down to the riverbank. My soldiers were as lions are, with their spoil, having serfs, cattle, milk, fat and honey, dividing up their property, their hearts gay.

zendz

HYK-Kamose-1

2009-08-13T14:24:00.000-07:00

HYK-Kamose-1

There appears to be two inscriptions of Kamose.

I will create them with 1 and 2 to separate them

=============================

a) Please show the line in the hieroglyphs that identify these enemy as Hyksos?

b) Please show the line in the hieroglyphic that uses the word Hyksos?

c) Please show the line in the hieroglyphic that states the enemy in the context ruled Egypt.

=============================

One of the stelae documenting the wars of Kamose to rid Egypt of the Hyksos yoke.

Stela (inscription) of Pharaoh Kamose from the Temple of karnak, Thebes, 17th Dynasty circa 1555BC

From Arizona University: http://www.u.arizona.edu/~afutrell/w%20civ%2002/kamose.html

INSCRIPTION OF KAMOSE AT KARNAK

The following two inscriptions purport to be King Kamose's account of his struggle to reunify Egypt at the end of the Second Intermediate Period. Kamose's father, Seqenenre Tao, had been king of the area around Thebes, which became the headquarters for his fairly successful effort to regain control of the Nile valley from the foreign Hyksos monarchy, at that time represented by the aging Apophis (called Apopy in the inscription).

Kamose took up the reconquest from dad, eventually pushing the Hyksos king back toward his capital city of Avaris, in the Nile Delta. Apophis tried to expand the war to a second front, by calling on the ruler of Kush, at Egypt's southern border, to attack Kamose to the rear. As the inscription indicates, Apophis' plan did not succeed. Kamose's rule was fairly brief; his successor Ahmose was the one who finally managed to force the Hyksos out of Egypt and re-unify Egypt under an Egyptian monarchy.

Consider:

why does Kamose attack the Asiatics? Is his motivation typical of all Egyptians at the time? on what basis do others disagree with his plans?

how does Kamose manage to succeed? how is victory represented in the inscriptions?

=============================

68. Kamose I (Helck, 1975a; 82ff., no. 119)

(1) "Regnal year 3 of Horus, he who has appeared on his throne; The-Two-Ladies, repeating monuments; Horus-of-Gold, who pacifies the Two Lands, King of Upper and Lower Egypt [Wadj]-Kheper-[re (1), son of Re] Kamose, given life, beloved of Amenre lord of the Thrones of the Two Lands, like Re forever and ever! (2) A mighty king native of Wese, Wadj-[kheper]-re, given life forever, even a good king! It is Re [that made] him king himself, and that authorized victory for him in very Truth!

His Majesty spoke in his palace to his council of magistrates who were in (3) his train: 'To what end do I know my (own) strength? One chief is in Avaris, another in Kush, and I sit (here) associated with an Asiatic and a Nubian! Each man has his slice in this Egypt and so the land is partitioned with me! (4) None can pass through it(2) as far as Memphis (although it is) Egyptian water! See he (even) has Hermopolis! No one can be at ease when they are milked by the taxes of the Asiatics. (5) I shall grapple with him that I might crush his belly, (for) my desire is to rescue Egypt which the Asiatics have destroyed.'

Then spake the magistrates of his council: 'See, as far as Kos(3) it is Asiatic water, and they have drawn out their tongues of one accord (4). We are doing all right with our (part of) Egypt: Elephantine is strong, (6) and the interior is with us as far as Kos. Their free land is cultivated for us, and our cattle graze in the Delta fens, while corn is sent for our pigs. Our cattle have not been seized, and [É] have not been tasted (7) He has the land of the Asiatics, we have Egypt. Only when comes one who [acts against us] should we act against him.'

But they troubled His Majesty's heart.

'As for your counsel (8) [É] [Éop]posite me. He who partitions the land with me will never respect me(5) [É] the Asiatics who (9) [É] with him. I will sail north to engage the Asiatics and success will come! If he intends to be at ease in [É] his eyes weeping and the entire land [É]!' (10)

The Mighty Ruler in Thebes, Kamose the Strong, protector of Egypt.

I sailed north in my might to repel the Asiatics through the command of Amun, exact-of-counsel, with my brave army (11) before me like a flame of fire and the Medjay (6)archers a-top our fighting-tops on the lookout for the Asiatics in order to destroy their places. East and West proffered their abundance, (12) and the army provisioned itself everywhere. I despatched the mighty battalions of Medjay, while I passed the day in [É] in order to invest

[É] (13) Tety the son of Pepy in the midst of Nefrusy(7) . I was not going to let him escape, once I had repelled the Asiatics who had defied Egypt, so that he could turn Nefrusy into a nest of Asiatics. I passed (14) the night in my ship, my heart happy; and when day dawned

I was upon him as if it were a hawk. When breakfast time came I overthrew him having destroyed his walls and slaughtered his people, and made his wife descend to the (15) river bank. My army acted like lions with their spoil - chattels, cattle, fat, honey - dividing their things, their hearts joyful. The district of Nefrusy (16) came down (in submission) : it did not take us long until its [É] was hemmed in [?] [unknown location] was deserted when I approached it. Their horses had fled inside, and the border patrol [É] those who had spent the night in the valley, their property É [remainder lost]

69. Kamose II (Habachi 1972)

(1) "'Bad news is in your town: you are driven back in the presence of your army, and your authority is restricted - inasmuch as you, in your capacity as suzerain, have made me a chief - so that (now) you must (even) beg (2) for the block where you shall fall. Look behind you! My troops are a threat behind you. The mistresses of Avaris shall not conceive, their hearts shall not budge (3) in the midst of their bodies, when the war-whoop of my troops is heard!'

I put in at Per-djedken(8) , my heart happy, so that I might let (4) Apopy experience a bad time, that Syrian prince with weak arms, who conceives brave things which never come about for him! I arrived at Yenyet-(5) of-the-southward-journey(9) , and I crossed over to them to greet them. I put the fleet (already) equipped in order, one behind the other, in order that I might take the lead, setting the course, with my (6) braves, flying over the river as does a falcon, my flag-ship of gold at their head, something like a divine being at their front.(7) I made the might transport boat beach at the edge of the cultivation, with the fleet behind it, as the sparrow-hawk uproots (plants) upon the flats of (8) Avaris!

I espied his women upon his roof, peering out of their windows towards the harbor. Their bellies stirred not as they (9) saw me, peeping from their loop-holes upon their walls like the young of inh-animals(10) in their holes, saying: he (10) is swift!'

Behold! I am come, a successful man! What remains is in my possession, and my venture prospers! As mighty Amun endures, I shall not leave you, I shall not allow you (11) to tread the fields even when I am not (here) with you! Does your heart fail, O you vile Asiatic? Look! I drink of the wine of your vineyards (12) which the Asiatics whom I captured pressed out for me. I have smashed up your resthouse, I have cut down your trees, I have forced your women into ships' holds (13), I have seized [your] horses; I haven't left a plank to the hundreds of ships of fresh cedar which were filled with gold, lapis, silver, turquoise, (14) bronze axes without number, over and above the moringa-oil, incense, fat, honey, willow, box-wood, sticks and all their (15) fine woods - all the fine products of Retenu(11) -

I have confiscated all of it! I haven't left a thing to Avaris to her (own) destitution: the Asiatic has perished! (16) Does your heart fail, O you vile Asiatic, you who used to say: 'I am lord without equal from Hermopolis to Pi-Hathor upon the Rekhty water. (17) (As for) Avaris on the Two Rivers, I laid it waste without inhabitants; I destroyed their towns and burned their homes to reddened ruin-heaps (18) forever, because of the destruction they had wrought in the midst of Egypt: they who had allowed themselves to hearken to the call of the Asiatics, had forsaken Egypt their mistress!

I captured (19) his messenger in the oasis upland, as he was going south to Kush with a written dispatch, and I found on it the following, in writing by the hand of the Ruler of Avaris: (20) '[É] son of Re, Apophis greets my son the ruler of Kush. Why have you arisen as ruler without letting me know? Do you (21) see what Egypt has done to me? The Ruler which is in her midst - Kamose-the-Mighty, given life! - is pushing me off my (own) land! I have not attacked him in any way comparable to (22) all that he has done to you; he has chopped up the Two Lands to their grief, my land and yours, and he has hacked them up. Come north! Do not hold back! (23) See, he is here with me: There is none who will stand up to you in Egypt. See, I will not give him a way out until you arrive! Then we (24) shall divide the towns of Egypt, and [Khent]-hen-nofer(12) shall be in joy.'

Wadj-khop-rica-the-mighty-Punisher-of-Misdeeds.

(25) 'I took possession of both deserts and the southland, and the rivers likewise, and no way was found for the É(?). I am never lax concerning my army - the concerned man (26) has not diverted attention - He feared me even when I was sailing north, before we had fought, before I reached him! When he saw my flame he beat a path as far as Kush (27) to seek his deliverer. (But) I seized it(13) en route and did not let it arrive. Then I had it taken back that it might be returned to him again, and released on the east side (28) at Atfih(14) .

My victory astounded him and his limbs were wracked, when his messenger related to him what I had done to the district of Cynopolis which had been his (29) possession. I despatched my strong battalion which was on the march to destroy Djesdjes (while I was in Sako), to prevent (any) enemy forces being (30) behind me. So I fared south confident and happy, destroying all the enemy who were in my way!'

What a happy home-trip for the (31) Ruler life! prosperity! happiness! with his army ahead of him! They had no casualties, nor did anyone blame his fellow, nor did their hearts weep! I moored on home soil during the season of (32) Inundation; everyone was bright-eyed, the land had abundant food, the river-bank was resplendent! Thebes was festive, women and men had come out to see (33) me; every woman hugged her neighbor, no one was tearful. [Amun's] incense (burned) in the sanctuary, at the place where it (34) is said: 'Receive good things!' as he grants the scimitar to the son of Amun life! prosperity! happiness!, the enduring king Wadj-kheper-re, son of Re, Kamose-the-mighty, given life, (35) who subdued the south and drove back the north, who seized the land by main force - given life, stability, dominion and happiness with his ku like Re forever and ever!

(36) His Majesty commanded the hereditary prince and count, master of privy matters of the kings-house, chief of the entire land, the seal-bearer of the king of Lower Egypt of (?) 'Star-of-the-Two-Lands', the dux, overseer of courtiers, (37) overseer of the seal, User-neshi: 'Have everything that My Majesty has done in war be put upon a stela, and have it set in Karnak in (38) Thebes forever and ever.' Then he replied to His Majesty: 'I will perform every assignment to the satisfaction of the king.'"

from D. Redford, "Textual Sources for the Hyksos Period," in E.D. Oren, (ed), The Hyksos: New Historical and Archaeological Perspectives (Philadelphia: 1997), pp.1-44.

zendz

HYK-Hieroglyphic-Example

2009-08-13T09:43:00.001-07:00

Hieroglyphic-Example

I do not like to use links to other sites, because sooner or later those sites vanish.

Here is a great example of how hieroglyphic translations could be rendered

I could not copy it to this post / e-mail, but if you go to their page:

They have two lines of hieroglyphs, click on Extract 1 you will see that line and if you move your mouse over the line, right to left, the translation appears...

Great !!! Try it

Here is the active page

http://www.pbs.org/empires/egypt/special/hieroglyphs/kamose.html

zendz

HYK-Egyptians-called-people-Levant

2009-08-12T13:42:00.000-07:00

HYK-Egyptians-called-people-Levant

=========================

It would be absurd. Then again, no historian or linguist worth his or her salt has ever claimed the Egyptians used the words "Semite" or "Asiatic." Both are modern terms.

What we translate as "Asia" to the Egyptians was an amorphous region today called the Levant. In fact, use of the word "Asia" is outdated. More common modern terms are Levant, Palestine, or Syro-Palestine. This area was not a well-defined state in ancient times but a collection of city-states and semi-nomadic tribes, most of whom spoke some dialect of Western Semitic.

The Egyptians referred to people of the Levant by several names. The word Canaan, a generic descriptor, probably does derive from the ancient Egyptian word transliterated as "knanw." One word for part of modern Syria was "rTnw." To the Egyptians the word Asia was "sTt," and Asiatics were "sttyw." As you can see from my transliterations, these terms would make no sense to the average modern reader, so more modern place names are employed.

///

NO one on earth has the slightest clue of what any ancient Egyptian words sounded like.

The idea to make weird spellings to make weird sounds of the Egyptians, will not float.

==============

article
Levant, region on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean Sea. Its name derives from the Italian word levante, meaning "rising," implying the rising of the sun in the east. Historically, the Levant included all of the countries along the eastern Mediterranean shores, extending from Greece to Egypt.

People of Italian or French extraction born in the Levant were sometimes referred to as Levantines. The name Levant States was used to refer to the French mandate over Syria and Lebanon after World War I (1914-1918); today the term is still occasionally applied to those two countries.

© 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
=============

I am not sure how these Egyptians are from Latin, Greek or any thing else. If it is a translation from ancient Egyptian to your language.. what it means in Chinese or Greek is a waste of breath.

Unless the title specifically identifies a specific tribe, then the words Semite, Levant, Asian are abstract identifications. Such words would only mean some one to our north who is not an Egyptian.

Levant includes Egyptians by this dictionary.

============

Then he continues

Yes, the ancient Hebrews were Semitic

///

I asked him to define Hebrews or Semitic people but he never responded.

Hebrew is a bible word and most Hebrews were NON Israelites, and if a Semite is one who spoke a middle east language, every one there was a Semite.

Note how these abstract words keep being sprinkled in to confuse or promote some kind of information that does not exist.

zendz

HYK-Egypt-Neighbors

2009-08-12T09:36:00.000-07:00

HYK-Egypt-Neighbors

There are no records of how the Egyptians first encountered their neighbors. Speculation based on some known events, the encounters may have first been explorers on the Mediterranean sea or on the Egyptian water ways.

Explorers like bees return home and traders follow. Traders return to their home turf with stories of wealth, and rulers send their militaries to rob or enslave the population.

While we hear the stories of supposed Canaanites moving in on the Egyptians, some how the history of Egypt's invasions/expansions are lost.

The Canaanites were Egyptian neighbors by land. Phoenicians or Hittites who wanted to get to Egypt would either have to pass through Canaan or arrive by ship.

MIGRATING TO EGYPT BECAUSE IT WAS PROSPERS?

In ancient times, there were no stock markets. Populations were made up of royalty & their police/military to make the commoners obey.

The business of the population was farming/herding and businesses directly related to eating or survival.

Unless there were a famine, a tyrant ruler, or a reason to flee, no commoners would survive any better in Egypt than they would in Lebanon, Canaan or Turkey.

The idea of a mass migration to Egypt by the commoners is quite humorous. As for any royalty to migrate out of their own land, duh ?

Rulers thrive no matter if the commoners are living in poverty. If rulers want the wealth of other lands, they send their lemmings/military to invade and fetch the wealth.

Rulers in times past, did go with their military forces to fight (watch the fighting more likely), but rulers never gave up their own empire/strong holds, to migrate to another land to become farmers/herders themselves.

There is an extensive web of rivers that enter Egypt from the north. This web leads to the Nile River.

The Hittites and Phoenicians could have taken a long journey through Canaan to reach Egypt or they could have made their voyage by the sea.

This extensive web of rivers was also the door way to Egypt by the Greeks and Romans.

As the Nile river runs south, it enters Cush/Nubian/Sudan and would be the best way for the Egyptians and Cushites to trade.

zendz

HYK-Identification-through-Imagination.

2009-08-11T17:48:00.000-07:00

HYK-Identification-through-Imagination.

The battles of the Egyptians may have been over decades or centuries, but with out any ancient text to identify who they were fighting, the 'experts' declare all enemies of the Egyptians to be 'Hyksos'
Evidence through imagination, I guess !

No where in the accounts of Ahmose, is Avaris ever identified as "the capital of the Hyksos" this hog wash, is more concoctions based on imagination, instead of hieroglyphs.

The conflicts at Avaris are not tied to any other conflicts through Egyptian hieroglyphics, nor are the enemy at Avaris ever identified as 'Hyksos'

The text in the accounts of Ahmose does indicate the naval battles. The rivers that come from the Mediterranean sea are the doors to the northern cities of Egypt.

Unless the hieroglyphs actually identify any one specifically, the wind of the 'experts' is the same if it comes from their mouth or the back of their pants. The information left by the Egyptians are in the hieroglyphs, and the fabrications of the 'experts' is but a fart in the wind.

Looks like Ahmose spent a lot of time fighting in naval battles. The entry point of these invaders was not through the Sinai, from Canaan, but it was on the river that flows from the sea.

Remember the whole story of 'Hyksos' were they were farmers/shepherds that came to settle in Egypt. To believe the battles at Avaris was with the 'Hyksos', you would have to believe a bunch of farmers/herders settled in Egypt, then formed a fleet of ships to battle the Egyptians.. Duh

zendz

HYK-Egyptians-were-invading Lebanon

2009-08-11T17:25:00.000-07:00

HYK-Egyptians-were-invading Lebanon

Hmmm, in the time line the 'Hyksos' were supposed to be ruling northern Egypt, the Egyptians were conquering Lebanon/Phoenicians?

=============================

Phoenicia, an area along the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea, now identified as Lebanon.

Bound on the east by the Lebanon Mountains. The southern boundary was Mount Carmel; the northern boundary Eleutherus River/ Kabir.

Phoenicia was not a unified state but a group of city-kingdoms. The most important of these cities were Simyra, Zarephath (Sarafand), Byblos, Jubeil, Arwad (Rouad), Acco ('Akko), Sidon (Sayda), Tripolis (Tripoli), Tyre (Sur), and Berytus (Beirut).

The most dominant were Tyre and Sidon, which alternated as sites of the ruling power.

The Phoenicians, called Sidonians in the Old Testament and Phoenicians by the Greeks They founded their first settlements on the Mediterranean coast about 2500 bc.

---> Existed as early as 2500 BC

They were influenced by the Sumerian and Akkadian cultures.

About 1800 bc Egypt, was then beginning to acquire an empire in the Middle East, invaded and took control of Phoenicia.

Around 1400 bc Hittite raids on Egyptian weakened the Egyptians giving the Phoenician cities an opportunity to revolt.

By about 1200 bc the Phoenicians were independent of Egypt.

=============================

2500 Physicians spread along the Mediterranean coast

1991-1782 BC 12th Dynasty "Hyksos" migrate to Egypt

1800 Egypt began to spread, taking control of Phoenicia

1550-1295 BC 18th Dynasty "Hyksos" expelled by Egyptians

1400 Hittites launch raids on Egypt.

1200 Phoenicians were rid of Egypt

As far as I have seen any one identified with the hieroglyph Hyksos is not fount 10 times in the massive amounts of Egyptian hieroglyphs.

Physicians and Hittites appear to have actual hieroglyph to support their conflicts with the Egyptians. Some one knowledgeable on these people will have to verify or challenge this information.

In the period where 'Egyptologist' state the Hyksos ruled northern Egypt, the Egyptians were conquering Phoenicia, according to this dictionary?

=============================

You will note in the account of Ahmose / Avaris, the invaders are NEVER identified as "Hyksos", this assumption is based on the imagination of "Egyptologist".

Avaris beside one of the multiple rivers on that spread through northern Egypt from the Mediterranean sea. Sea faring people such as the Phoenicians or Hittites would have entered these rivers to trade with or attack Egyptian cities.

You will note the account of Ahmose deals with a naval battle, it would appear that the invasion described in the accounts of Ahmose is an account of invaders who came by sea.

It is interesting to observe that in the time line the Hyksos were supposed to have ruled the north of Egypt, the Egyptians were invading the Phoenicians ... as far as Lebanon.

zendz

HYK-Cant-c-da-forest-4-da-trees

2009-08-09T17:25:00.001-07:00

HYK-Cant-c-da-forest-4-da-trees

It appears these zealots want to make their case so bad, they can not see the forest for the trees.

We see Bullae / Scarab that they tell us the Hyksos made, but if it comes to a page or paragraph of information, it is ONLY the Egyptians who wrote about these encounters?

They tell us that the Egyptians wanted to conceal the invasion/control of the 'Hyksos' and yet it is ONLY in Egyptian text that any such information exists?

Regardless of who ruled, from the 12th to the 18th Dynasties there are Egyptian markers / tombs that proliferate Egypt. It is from this Egyptian text that every thing believed about the 'Hyksos' exists.

I have just started my quest, but so far, I have not seen 10 pages of text by containing all information used to create the Hyksos story.

On the other end... in the very same places, there must be thousands of pages that could be created from those ancient Egyptian sources.

In some of those places the hieroglyphics are found, they happen to be tombs of royal this or royal that.. or from military leaders.

I thought military leaders, princes and such were notches below Kings/Pharaohs?

Instead of just examining the spit attributed to Hyksos, look at the whole ocean. Read the rest of the information on the walls ... and see if they happen to mention Egyptian rulers.. do they mention Egyptian military leaders.

There are mountains of information in those tombs 12-18th Dynasty.. Who are the pictures of, what locations are given, what rulers are mentioned.

What tombs exist from the 12th to 18th centuries.. go look at the forest and you may find the best place for the tree is in a wood chipper.

zendz

HYK-12th-Dynasty-Hyksos

2009-08-08T19:12:00.000-07:00

HYK-12th-Dynasty-Hyksos

In a private message one wrote:

... I saw was your confusion about farmers and all of them being rulers, which I never said.
... The word on this wall in hieroglyphs is HKA-xAst, meaning "foreign ruler." It is not the plural HKA-xAswt. The caption is referring specifically to the man below whom the glyphs appear. Is was the leader of these migrants.
... The tomb dates to Dynasty 12. The Hyksos did not rule Egypt till Dynasty 15. ... What I was showing was the earliest evidence for these Canaanite migrants because you had said that all material related to the Hyksos came a long time afterward.
=============================

In multiple web sites you will find them translating the hieroglyph as foreign rulers.

I made a fuss because it would be unlikely that a group would all be rulers.

This guy corrected it and said the hieroglyph is plural and only applies to the man below the glyph.

This particular guy and others also say it is an image of Canaanites migrating into Egypt.

The wall is full of themes, a whole bunch of them are about farmers. I would suggest they begin to read the context of all the hieroglyphics around that one and see what information exists in what is happening.

#1 Show the hieroglyph translation that this is a migration into Egypt .. or

#2 Is that information just added from the imagination of "experts"?

There are endless contradictions of centuries of when events took place: From this particular web site..

12th Dynasty 1991-1782 BC

15th Dynasty 1650-1550 BC

Let's just say 200 years between the 12th and 15th dynasty

This person wrote that the event depicted in this image took place in the 12th dynasty and the Hyksos did not rule until the 15th dynasty... and yet by his translation of the hieroglyph one of the men shown is identified as a foreign ruler.

#3 If these people were identified as foreign rulers when they did NOT rule Egypt, doesn't that mean the term foreign ruler does NOT mean they were rulers of Egypt?

All the images I can find are blurry, small, grainy.. nasty. If you know of a better screen shot of this scene, let me know.

So this 12th Dynasty hieroglyphs is "HKA-xAst, meaning "foreign ruler."

And of course because they were called foreign rulers when they did not rule Egypt, this term could mean they were rulers in the places they came from.

zendz

Heiroglyphic-Translation-0002

2009-08-08T14:47:00.001-07:00

Heiroglyphic-Translation-0002

Problems of hieroglyphic translation

* Poor writing abilities. Not being able to create the standard characters (kind of like we think of doctors' hand writing)

* Mis-spelled words, the ancient Egyptians had no spell checkers or proof readers.

* The shear number of (letters) symbols used in hieroglyphics

I just read there could be up to 2500 characters/pics

A B C ... Z 26 vs 2500 characters?

I have no idea of what they look like, but I am guessing there are a whole bunch of those characters that are similar in appearance to others?

To get this in your head, I suppose you might need some with a super memory who could see and remember all of those shapes.

Each pic/symbol should be arranged in sequence so they are beside similar symbols so you could see the differences.

Once the characters were cataloged, a common font should be adopted.

If you ever tried to use OCR, with all the different fonts, the OCR programs I have tried are a joke.

The idea would to create a WORLD WIDE STANDARD FONT for each character.

With this standard in tact, the same kind of technology used in finger prints could be applied.

=============================

After the characters were placed in alphabetical order... 2,500 .. of them and given a standard font, each character would also be given it's own number.

This way (for those who recognized which character it was) skilled persons could type the number and that number would generate the font.

By typing a series of numbers, those numbers would translate into a line of hieroglyphs.

=============================

Skilled scribes could then examine original hieroglyphs and enter them into a data base... kind of like that on-line dictionary that people can contribute to.

The data base to contain the stored information read from hieroglyphs could be ASCII text. Simple, easy, small.

=============================

File names for each hieroglyph

The file name would consist of the first 100 characters of that hieroglyph separated with ~

The rest of the file name would contain information of where, who, when it was found

By loading a stream of ascii text, any one with a translator program could see the original hieroglyphs as they appeared and the translation.

=============================

I learned to program in basic many years ago and I wrote a program that could search the whole bible in 3 minutes.

What I suggest would be a snap for modern programmers.

=============================

With a standardized font established, every hieroglyph ever entered into the shared data base would be at the fingers of any who did a search.

zendz

Heiroglyphic-Translation-0001

2009-08-08T14:05:00.000-07:00

Heiroglyphic-Translation-0001

Before beginning what is involved in translation, we should first consider what communication is composed of.

0001 Communication is the passing of information through touch, sound or visual means.

=============================

0002 For any population to communicate information, they must first establish a standardized touch, sound or visual sign to convey specific information.

=============================

0003 ( Touch is so trivial, it has no meaning in translations of other languages)

=============================

0004 The alphabet is our visual symbols, which arranged in a specific arrangement, convey information.

=============================

0005 Hieroglyphs were the visual symbols, arranged into specific arrangements to convey information.

=============================

0006 To translate the same information from hieroglyphics to English (your language), the letters of your own language must be arranged to convey the SAME MEANING as in the hieroglyphic text.

=============================

If in squiggly characters of an ancient language, look like this and are pronounced ooogie boogie jelly beanie

0007 The point is to render the weird characters into your own text

0008 and sound, to render the same meaning of the language or your population.

=============================

0009 ONLY if the correct words of your own language present the same meaning as the foreign text, has a translation been made.

=============================

0010 Once the correct translation has been made, the foreign symbols and sounds are discarded. They have no further use.

=============================

Top left, Egyptian hieroglyphic symbol - Hka xAswt (the way it sounds I guess) , translation to English.

0011 Once it has been translated, the appearance and sound of the original text is a moot point.

0012 After translation, the visual symbols/text and sound of the text of the language it is translated is the final product.

If the weird text below was a foreign language that sounded like ooogie boogie jelly beanie and looked like that ... If after translation the information is, the man stubbed his big toe on a rock

0013 Unless it is a false translation, the original appearance and sound is a moot point. Once the information of another language has been given the sounds and visual symbols of your own language, the translation has been made.

0014 If the symbols outlined in red, mean rock when translated to your language, then you can look to the many text of the original foreign language to see if you can find those same cluster of characters, to find what else they may have to say about rocks.

=============================

If the word translates to rock, then it is what rock means in your own language.

If the word translates to foreign, then it is what foreign means in your own language.

If the word translates to camel, then it is what camel means in your own language.

0015 If the translators, translated the foreign language correctly they used the meanings of your own words. Once the translations are made, you need only look up the words translated to and the use they have in your own language.

=============================

Foreign: 1. Located away from one's native country. 2. Of, characteristic of, or from a place or country other than the one being considered. 3. Conducted or involved with other nations or governments; not domestic. 4. Situated in an abnormal or improper place in the body and typically introduced from outside. 5. Not natural; alien. 6. Not germane; irrelevant. 7. Subject to the jurisdiction of another political unit.

Foreigner: One who is of a country different than your own.

If you are Irish, another Irishman is NOT a foreigner

If you are Irish, an Italian is a foreigner.

If you are visiting Italy, you are in a foreign country

If you are in Ireland, Italy is a foreign country.

=============================

0016 No matter if you are in another country other than your own or if you are in your own country.. that country (NOT YOUR OWN) is a foreign country.

=============================

0017 No matter if some one from another country is there or in your own country, that person is a foreigner.

=============================

If any text from any ancient language is translated and uses the word foreign, then it contains the meaning of foreign in our own language and how it is used.

The word foreign (in regards to people/places) has no other meaning in the English language. We have no land area on the map (present or past) with any land area called foreign. We have no historic population any where on the earth identified as the Foreign people.

Foreign ruler, foreign sailor, foreign diplomat, foreign cheese maker ... the prefix foreign, does not identify who they are, but it identifies what they are not.

=============================

0018 Foreign: Identifies every one on earth who is not of your own country. Foreign is relative to the condition of the particular country you belong to.

=============================

The word foreign is relative and it's meaning depends on who the user is. To an Egyptian:Canaan, Chad, Cush/Sudan, Ethiopia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya , Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey ... NO matter what the population was called, no matter what nations were formed at any time BC ...

0019 EVERY ONE WHO WAS NOT AN EGYPTIAN WAS FOREIGN.=============================

0020 If an ancient Egyptian hieroglyph translates to foreign pig farmer, foreign singer, foreign brick layer, the prefix (foreign) is abstract, it could be any foreign people from any foreign land. Foreign only notes: This guy is not an Egyptian.

=============================

It is funny how the experts tell us an ancient Egyptian symbol is translated to the Greek word Hyksos, then they tell us it means foreign ruler. We do not speak Greek, so why do they keep on injecting the word after they have given us what it means in our language?

0021 If they know what they are talking about, to keep them from flipping in and out between two languages, after they have produced their document in English, just use your search and replace to replace all of their entries Hyksos with foreign rulers.

=============================

0022 Foreign rulers come here many times, but any foreign ruler present, does not indicate they are ruling here.

=============================

0023 A foreign ruler could be one who headed a large population in another land or a foreign ruler could be a local chieftain.

=============================

0024 The assumptions of "experts" injected into information that does not exist, is the basis of bogus translations.

=============================

0025 There has never been a population on earth named Foreign, there has never been a kingdom/empire on the map identified as The Kingdom of Foreign. Foreign in the English language only identifies which population a group does NOT belong to.

=============================

0026 The ancient hieroglyphs in this case would only identify a non Egyptian group of unspecified numbers and origins. Nothing in these words would identify where they were rulers of.

zendz

HYK-Meaning-of-Foreign

2009-08-07T19:53:00.000-07:00

HYK-Meaning-of-Foreign

After I stated that foreign could be Hittites, Canaanites, Babylonians.... and so on, the response was some of the groups I listed had not yet been encountered.

The point is members of any group using the term foreign, means some one belonging to a nation/land other than their own.

The people of the nations that the Egyptians did encounter through the centuries did not just pop up like mushrooms.

The Egyptians were surrounded with foreigners on every side. (Regardless of what the Egyptians called them), The word foreign does NOT specifically identify who those foreigners were.

The word foreign is open and could have been any of the non Egyptian populations at one time and another population at different times.

=============================

Greeks ... Phoenicians who were their ancestors before men 4000 years later began to identify them?

This is not to identify who the Hyksos were (in this account). The thought only came from the account of Ahmose being in charge of a ship in the battle. Avaris being on a river near the Mediterranean sea.

It would appear the foreigners in this conflict came by sea, so my thoughts were who were well known people of the sea.

=============================

Translation is not the exchange of words, but to render the same meaning into a language of a specific population.. in this case English.

When people translate to a particular language, they must use words that contain the same meaning as the original language.

IF the translators actually translated this word to English:

American Heritage Dictionary : Foreign : 1. Located away from one's native country. 2. Of, characteristic of, or from a place or country other than the one being considered. 3. Conducted or involved with other nations or governments; not domestic. 4. Situated in an abnormal or improper place in the body and typically introduced from outside. 5. Not natural; alien. 6. Not germane; irrelevant. 7. Subject to the jurisdiction of another political unit. -
Foreigner is not a proper noun.

The girls jumped rope ... girls common noun, foreigners common noun

Peggy jumped rope.. Peggy proper noun.

There were a lot of foreigners at the convention.. foreigners common noun.

There were a lot of Germans at the convention.. Germans proper noun.

A proper noun is specific and identifies ONLY one group, one individual.

THE Statue of Liberty.

The Egyptians were surrounded with foreigners, no matter when what nations formed by our identification there were hoards of people through out the middle east.

IF the word Hyksos means foreign rulers.. it simply meant to Egyptians

NON-Egyptian rulers.

The English meaning of foreign actually means what one is NOT

Foreign = they are not one of us.. they do not belong to our nation.

Foreign does not identify one for what they specifically are, but

HKA-xAst The Non Egyptian-rulers

Foreign identifies what they are not.

Foreign alien, outsider, NON Egyptian.

Unless you intend to change the meaning of the English word it was translated to

=============================

There are two meanings in the word they translate from "Hyksos"

(1) Foreign (2) Rulers

Below is a symbol I have been shown, the experts translate to Hyksos / HKA-xAst

Let's begin and first ask

1 Which of symbols (a, b, c) contain the meaning foreign.

2 Which of symbols (a, b, c) contain the meaning rulers.

3 or, are you telling me, you could not take part of those symbols to represent the meaning foreign?

4 This is a one time symbol, no parts of this symbol have ever been found in any other Egyptian text?

zendz

HYK-Canaanites-VS-Hurrains

2009-08-06T13:12:00.000-07:00

HYK-Canaanites-VS-Hurrains

Canaanites = SET, the entire population of the land between Egypt/Lebanon and the Sea and the Jordan river.

With in the set of Canaanites were an array of subsets, individual tribes or nations, with their own cultures and religions.

Judges 3:5 And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites, Hittites, and Amorites, and Perizzites, and Hivites, and Jebusites

These are a fraction of the individual Asian tribes/nations inside of Canaan: Amalekites, Amorites, Arvadite, Edomites, Girgashites, Hamathite, Hittites, Hivites, Horites, Ishmeelites, Jebusites, Kadmonites, Kenites, Kenizzites, Midianites, Midianites, Perizzites, Philistines, Zemarite.

Did all the different Canaanite nations speak the same language? I am not knowledgeable on this question. I went to the web and looked for Canaanite language and found this: Results 1 - 10 of about 4,480 for "canaanite language".

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.answers.com/language&r=67&ei=1y57SoSpM8yfkQWZqvT1Ag&sa=X&oi=dict&ct=D&cd=2&usg=AFQjCNEnth6qAcWuWiJCfOP4TbY_BAT5Dg

When I see words like Israel, Hebrew in web pages, I know to expect the information coming from religious sources.

I like to find web pages from universities: So my questions are

1) Did any of the nations inside of Canaan have their own written languages?

2) IF it is found that Canaanites did have their own languages, is any of those Canaanite language text found in Egypt?

3) IF any Canaanite text does exist, what information about Egypt is found in the text of any of the Canaanite nations?

4) If Canaanites did have their own text and they were the Hyksos in Egypt, why is it Hyksos are only mentioned in Hieroglyphs?

5) In text I have seen these 'experts' equate the Hyksos with the Hurrains. The Hurain turf was north and east of Canaan.. most of the tales about the Hurrains are centered in the area of Iraq, so why would the 'experts' identify Hyksos with southern Canaanites instead of Mesopotamian?

zendz

HYK-Semites-Asians-Hebrews

2009-08-06T11:51:00.000-07:00

HYK-Semites-Asians-Hebrews

When telling the Hyksos story, we keep on hearing that the Egyptians identified them as Semites or Asiatic people? Also the word Hebrew pops up.

=============================

(Hebrew) by the definition of Eber's descendants or Arbaham's descendants would define multiple tribes / nations other that Israelites. Israelites would only be a trivial fraction of Hebrews. Keturites, Ishmaelites, Edomites ... these and more would be Hebrews.

=============================

(Semites a) being the descendants of Shem, would be mostly non Israelites and of course if a Semite was the exclusive descendant of Shem, there could be no such thing as a Semite. In the bible accounts all Israelites produced their descendants with Canaanites, Jebusites, Egyptians.. The Israelites could no be Semites than they could be Hamites.

=============================

(Semite b) being a people of the middle east who spoke a middle east language, through out this land was an array of different languages.. dozens... hundreds of middle east languages?

Because these story tellers must use abstract terms that could identify any one in the middle east, I have given a list of countries for them to mark as descendants of Semitic people and I will create a map of what these 'anthropologist' call Semites.

"It is quite humorous that the Egyptians would identify foreigners through out the middle east"

=============================

Today in our language Asia is a term that would include China, Korea, Japan, Mongolia and all the lands of the bible stories. Who could ancient Egyptians be identifying IF they used a form of the word Asia ?

(Asiatic) being a people who lived in the lands of the bible stories or being who we call Asians today, the ancient Egyptians might have a word for all non Egyptians who lived north of them, but the idea they would have a term for people who lived in Asia, makes me giggle... never the less, I have created a list of nations we identify as Asians today... and now, who ever these experts say the ancient Egyptians referred to as Asiatic, let them pick the places Egypt would consider as Asiatic and I will make a map.

=============================

1

2

3

Check if they are ->

Asians

Semites

Afghanistan

Azzerijan

Bahrain

Cambodia

China

Egypt

Georgia

India

Iran

Iraq

Japan

Jordan

Korea

Lebanon

Mongolia

Myanmar

Oman

Pakistan

Palestine

Qatar

Syria

Tajikistan

Thailand

Turkey

Turkmenistan

Ubekistan

United Arab Emirates

Viet Nam

Yemen

=============================

Spread sheet you can check I think

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tbxksV6VBnuqUCfYk4AHmCQ&output=html

=============================

Why do these "experts" use such abstract words Semites/Asiatic. If the ancient Egyptians actually used such terms, show us what areas on a modern day map that the Egyptians would have identified as Semites/Asiatic and I will create a map.

The idea that the ancient Egyptians would have the words Semites or Asiatic seems absurd, so let's look at the hieroglyphs the experts translate to these words and identify who they could possibly be talking about.

zendz

HYK-Egyptologist-Scholar-Challenge

2009-08-06T04:15:00.000-07:00

HYK-Egyptologist-Scholar-Challenge

EXISTING GROUPS OR INDIVIDUALS

When it comes to the identification of any people, the ONLY way any people by group or individuals can be identified is by ancient text written in their time of existence which specifically names that group or individual.

=============================

EVENTS THAT TOOK PLACE IN ANCIENT TIMES

The ONLY way to know what events any individuals or groups were involved in ancient times is by text written in the time those events took place.

=============================

PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF MAN MADE THINGS/EVENTS

If a city is found that has been burned, it does not take imagination to know some kind of fire took place, but with out ancient text, only a guess can be made as to what started the fire.

If volcanic ash is found, then the cause can be attributed to a natural disaster, other wise with out supporting text any speculation is based only on imagination.

With out text, physical evidence will reveal specific things happened. With out text physical evidence of man made artifacts or events can not be attributed to any group or individual.

=============================

SPECULATION BASED ON LOGIC/REASON

Using text or artifacts we can come to conclusions based on reason, and we can also weed out false logic.

George found a Kodak camera at the park and said the owner of this camera got it at K-mart (based on the fact that he saw a camera just like it at K-mart)... FALSE Logic

Because this item is sold at dozens of stores, it could have came from any of them.

ONLY if the item had a sticker (text) on it, identifying the store, could one assume where it came from.

* When ever a man made object is made in multiple locations, it is illogical to speculate which location it originated in.

=============================

THE BASIS OF ALL EVENTS IN ANCIENT HISTORY
IS TEXT, ARTIFACTS AND LOGIC

"Egyptologist say...."

In order for Egyptologist to state specific man made events took place, they must have ancient text to base that assertion on.

In order for Egyptologist to specifically identify the groups or individuals involved, they must have the ancient text to base that assertion on.

If you would look at ALL the ancient hieroglyphs, extract only the parts that are used as information about the 'Hyksos' and place that information on type written paper, there is not 50 pages that specifically deals with 'Hyksos' and yet there are thousands of pages of information written about them?

=============================

THE SUM OF EVIDENCE THAT HYKSOS RULED EGYPT
IS IN HIEROGLYPHS WRITTEN WHEN THEY WERE THERE
OR BY THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE THEY LEFT BEHIND

Any scientist/Egyptologist who is able to document their studies, any scholar who is able to document the basis of their assertions, can create a publication

A. Here is an image of the original papyrus, tablet, wall hieroglyphs that I take my information.

B. Next is a complete line, by line translation of the whole context.

C. "Eddy Egyptian wrote he took his grain to the city" on line 17 and here is the full hieroglyphic text with "I took the grain to the city" highlighted in blue.

Those of you who claim to have information about events of ancient Egyptians, here is my challenge.

* Produce a full image (that the hieroglyphs are not blurred) of the full text

* State your assertions and

* Highlight the original hieroglyph text segment that makes that statement

* Give the translation of the highlighted area of the text which confirms your assertion.

=============================

All evidence to back your assertion begins with a clear image of the original text or artifacts.

Any one who would like to debate the assertion the Hyksos ruled Egypt, begin with any ancient hieroglyph you wish.

Don't list them, take one at a time. Give a full translation of the full text and at the bottom of your report, write the translation of each line that makes your point.

17 Eddy Egyptian said

Line number, the translation which has information that makes your point.

=============================

My challenge to scholars / Egyptologist who promote the story that Hyksos ruled northern Egypt, is to begin with any text written in that time period or select any ancient artifact.

It is not one challenge, but each individual artifact or hieroglyph you present is an individaul challenge.

* Before ignorant ol me could dispute what almighty Egyptologist say, first show me where Egyptologist say that.

* Before you believe Egyptologist based on the flabbing of their lips, go to the ancient text to see it in the original and translation.

To know what ancient Egyptians said/believed you would have to read their words. It is not what Egyptologist say, the Egyptians said, if you have the ability to read heiroglyphs, the question is what Egyptians said.

=============================

THE CHALLENGE

Pick your specific artifact found in Egypt and sight your reason why that artifact proves your point.

Pick your specific source of heiroglyphs and heighlight the portion in blue which translates to make your point.

Creating and using any e-mail identity you wish, from that e-mail send a post to

hyksos-myth-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

After your membership is confirmed, you can then present your case by sending post to

hyksos-myth@yahoogroups.com

zendz

HYK-Egyptian-text-reveals

2009-08-05T16:16:00.001-07:00

HYK-Egyptian-text-reveals

The word "Hyksos" is a Greek corruption of the Egyptian term hk3 kh3swt, which translates literally as "foreign rulers"

///

* I thought that kingdoms were composed of one ruler, but we are shown images of families with live stock, and we are told the caption identifies them as foreign rulers?

=============================

Groups of Canaanites had been migrating to northern Egypt. Later Egyptian texts tell us that these Canaanites invaded and overtook Egypt .

///

* What Egyptian text states Canaanites had been migrating into Egypt?

* What Egyptian text identified Canaanites as invading Egypt?

* I thought Canaanites did have their own languages? Is there any Canaanite text which tells of such accounts?

=============================

The Egyptians wanted no one of the future to think that they were so weak as to allow a bunch of foreigners to rule them.

///

* If there is no text from Egyptians or any one else making this statements, how would these present day prophets be able to tell us what the Egyptians thought and did?

=============================

I have seen some hieroglyphs where invaders came to northern Egypt and the Egyptians fought them off. It appears to be a naval invasion because the tablet was from the perspective of an Egyptian who told of his command of a ship.. but now?

* Show us the ancient text that identifies Avaris as a capital of the Canaanites.

In the battles of Arvais, I see the names of some of the enemy commanders but there is nothing in the context to identify the invaders as Canaanites.

* Show us the specific hieroglyph you speak of and the exact line where these enemy are identified?

zendz

HYK-Who-Are-The-Varments

2009-08-05T10:09:00.000-07:00

HYK-Who-Are-The-Varments

#1 List every conflict mentioned in the Egyptian hieroglyphs in which the enemy is specifically identified as Hyksos.

#2 Using the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, give the words which identify any actual nation/city outside of Egypt that the Hyksos fled to or invaded from?

=============================

In the history of the feuding Edward family of Kentucky, records show they were fighting with people all around them.

They had fights with the Jones, Smiths, Millers, Jenkins, Tuckers, Blanes, Kellers...

Centuries later some one found some old letters from the Edward family that gave some details about different fights they had through the years.

We beat the pulp out of John's gang.

We murdered Ted's gang in the hollow.

We chances Mike's gang across the river.

If there is NOTHING in the letter that identifies the Jones, Smiths, Millers, Jenkins, Tuckers, Blanes or Kellers, then how would any one know which of these families John, Ted or Mike belonged to?

Isn't that what these "Egyptologist" / story tellers do? When they read hieroglyphs mentioning conflicts Egyptians had with different groups, the enemy leaders are named, but the group of that leader is NOT identified.

Through out the ancient world, there were endless border conflicts and invasions through out the centuries. UNLESS IN THE CONTEXT THE GROUP IS IDENTIFIED ALONG WITH THE NAME OF IT'S LEADER, THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW WHICH GROUP THAT PARTICULAR LEADER BELONGED TO.

AND THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY TO KNOW WHICH GROUP THE EGYPTIANS WERE FIGHTING.

=============================

Facts are gathered from information that DOES EXIST.

Myths are the product of some one's imagination.

"Egyptologist" use facts or mythology in their assertion that the Hyksos fought against the Egyptians?

Show the context of all ancient hieroglyphs in which Hyksos are specifically identified as being in battles with Egyptians and ONLY those hieroglyphs are evidence of any Hyksos conflicts.

In any hieroglyphs that mention conflicts and the vermin are not identified, then the vermin could have been the Jones, Smiths, Millers, Jenkins, Tuckers, Blanes or Kellers .. or perhaps the Hittites, Babylonians, Persians, Akkadians, Assyrians... or 50 other tribes/nations that the Egyptians encountered.

Any "Egyptologist" who state the Egyptians fought against any specific people, when the people of those battles are not identified, is a blatant liar.

It is OK to promote your imagination as mythology, but when one sells their imagination as factual events, it is because they are full of themselves.

Who Are The Varmints in the context of an conflicts of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs is known ONLY if those Varmints are identified in the context.

=============================

Begin

* Throw out all accounts written, 200, 300, 1000 years after the Hyksos were supposed to be there. Writers who write about events that took place centuries before they were ever born, could know no more than you could know and write about the same events.

Only those who existed in the time the events were taking place, could be witnesses and recorders of those events.

LOOK FOR HIEROGLYPHS WRITTEN IN THE TIME PERIOD THE HYKSOS WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN IN EGYPT.

* List all hieroglyphs that mention battles the Egyptians were involved in..

* Then look in the context and produce all hieroglyphs of Egyptian battles in which the enemy were identified as Hyksos.

zendz

HYK-KAMOSE-ASIATIC/NEGRO-TRANSLATION

2009-08-04T18:20:00.000-07:00

HYK-KAMOSE-ASIATIC/NEGRO-TRANSLATION

Translators want the world to think the Hyksos belonged to the white race?

Kamose Inscriptions

Quote:

His majesty spoke in his palace to the council of nobles who were in his retinue: 'Let me understand what this strength of mine is for! (One) prince is in Avaris, another is in Ethiopia, and (here) I sit associated with an Asiatic and a Negro! Each man has his slice of this Egypt, dividing up the land with me.

=============================

This inscription is supposed to be from the prospective of an Egyptian

Asiatic - Asian / Negro ... these are references to race.

Would the Egyptians actually call any of their neighbors Negroes or Asians if the Egyptians were nothing BUT a composite of Negroes and Asians ?

Below the Mediterranean sea is the beginning of the Asian race.

Kids in villages of Iraq (descendants of ancient Mesopotamians)

* Asians are a different race than West Europeans.

* Asians are a different race than Negroes

The Asian race begins in the areas of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and spreads into Egypt.

Egypt is the melting point between the Negro and Asian races.

Other than the images in The Valley of The Kings, is the physical remains of the ancient Egyptians.

On the opposite side of the Nile river are mass graves of the common Egyptians.

The graves of the ancient Egyptians are not composed of Anglo Saxons, nor Chinese, nor Eskimos.

The graves of the ancient Egyptians are a composite of Asians and Negroes.

=============================

Today you will find a crock pot of white European descendants along with the original Asians and Negroes.. but what would you expect after 3000 years of European invasions.

Look at the sea of black native Americans in the early photos and look in the populations of NY, Oklahoma... in the places where there were nothing but black skin people, now is a pot luck of blacks, yellows and whites.

It only took 300 years to change the face of the American population. In Asia, Europeans have been polluting their gene pool for 3000 years.

The closest you can get to seeing the faces of the original natives is to go into isolated areas where outsider mix with them.

When I worked in Egypt in Alexandria, I saw mostly the Asian Race. As I went south to Cairo, the Negro population increased.

We had a project on the Red Sea and we traveled from Cairo through vast areas of nothing but sand, when we came to an isolated village and stopped for fuel, there was nothing but black faces.

When I got out and looked around, the villagers looked at me as if I were an alien. Unlike the populations along the tourist areas, these isolated Egyptians had never seen a white face, blond hair human.

=============================

Why would the ancient Egyptians identify their neighbors as Negroes or Asians when the Egyptians were nothing BUT Asians and Negroes themselves?

Kamose Inscriptions I sit associated with an Asiatic and a Negro! ... BS

In the first place, Kamose was dead, this was supposed to be what some one after his death, wrote in his stead.

The actual words of the Egyptians would not to be to identify any one by race, the same race as themselves.

The red outline includes the descendants of the Asians and Negroes that composed the Egyptians and the natives of Mesopotamia, Hittites ... south to the Cushites/Sudan.

Why do these BSERS falsely translate " Kamose Inscriptions I sit associated with an Asiatic and a Negro" by race? Could it be that those who tell the Hyksos Myth, would have the world to believe the Hyksos belonged to the white European race?

What was the race of the Egyptians and all they encountered (before Europeans began to invade)? It is not what I say, but it is what the DNA of the natives of the middle east reveals. This is a matter for anthropologist, not Hollywood film makers who paint the faces of the actors.

Why would "anthropologist/Egyptologist" translate these hieroglyphs as the identification by race?

zendz

Ancient-Egyptian-Textiles-Quest

2009-08-04T16:07:00.000-07:00

Ancient-Egyptian-Textiles-Quest
Sorry to bomb you with an e-mail question you probably have no knowledge of, but if you know of an instructor in your organizations that has knowledge of this type information please pass it along if they have a response.
In the very early images of ancient Egyptians, they do not appear to be wearing animal skins, so their clothes must have been made of some kind of cloth.
Other than looms, how else would they have made fabric?
When I look at the fabrics made by Native Americans and other cultures around the world, I see a wide array of patterns and designs. People who lived in the very same settlements had diverse methods used to use looms and the same weavers never made identical fabrics.
If populations around the world had a wide array of diverse patterns or methods in fabric making, it looks like it would be impossible to show what population came up with any fabric design.
====================================
"The tomb of Chnem-hotep, at Beni Hasan is a painting of a loom with women weaving only".
Not only did people in the same areas create different patterns and weaves, but the same populations also create an array of different designs for looms.
What are the oldest physical remains of looms from ancient Egypt?
What are the oldest wall paintings of looms in ancient Egypt?
Other than ancient Egypt, I thought that looms were used through out Asia / Mesopotamia... before 2000 BC?
===================================
The mythical Hyksos are said to have came to Egypt around 1500 BC and are credited with introducing looms to the Egyptians. In images centuries before the "Hyksos" period, Egyptians were not wearing animal skins.
It appears to me that Egyptians were creating clothing out of fabrics centuries before the "Hyksos" tale. What is the earliest period in Egyptian History that cloth making can be dated to?
What evidence exists that would debunk the mythical story of "Hyksos" bringing looms to ancient Egyptians?
===================================
For a thousand years before the mythical Hyksos came to Egypt, the Egyptians had been trading and interacting with empires from Cush/Sudan, Turkey, Syria and Iran. The Egyptians could have brought innovations back from any of those lands, or in fact the innovations in those lands may have came from the Egyptians in the first place.

Ideas / inventions are like genies, once they are out of the bottle they can never be put back and any visitors from any lands who saw a good idea, would indeed take it back to his own turf.

zendz

HYK-Scientist-or-decievers.

2009-08-02T08:46:00.000-07:00

HYK-Scientist-or-decievers.

Simply by evoking the titles professor, archeologist, Egyptologist, dr. the majority of the public will take any thing they say as a fact, but even if they do have some kind of education and do not apply it to any artifact presented as legitimate, what good would their education be?

There are usually three phases in the chain of artifacts or evidence of some ancient find.

a) The persons who claim to find it.

b) The "experts" who authenticate it, and

c) The finally customer which is usually some museum.

Unless a museum is 100% supported by the government, it is a profit making business. If the owners found they had forgeries and thought no one would find out, it will not be them who exposes the fraud. The artifacts purchased by museums are profit makers. The public stands in lines and pays to see what they believe to be valuable ancient artifacts.

If the museum took the Mona Lisa in a back room for restoration and replaced it with a copy and 10,000 visitors walked through, how many would go home believing they had a great experience and saw the famous painting?
=============================

Why would any one go through the trouble to forge ancient text or antiques?

* If they can sell it, they could get tens of thousands ... millions for it.

* If they created a forgery they could not keep and planted it in a dig, it would contribute to their fame. They could make thousands of dollars in speaking engagements.

* If they planted a forgery in a dig which would be of important significance, by "finding such an important artifact", they would gain fame for themselves (i.e. The German who found the Nefertiti bust)

If they could plant such a forgery of importance, they could write books and make hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Why would any one go through the trouble to forge ancient text or antiques, go to your favorite search engine and type in "fake artifacts" ... "forged artifacts" .. "fake paintings"

Forged paintings and artifacts are a multi-million dollar business.

=============================

One documentary on TV was the account of a Jewish business man named Oded Golan. He was a famous collector Israel's largest private collections of antiquities.

He set up a scam to have a stooge take a piece to have it examined. The piece was supposed to be a tablet that presented evidence of the temple of King Solomon.

If the artifact was not examined, it would have been sold for millions.

It was later discovered that this forger also happened to be the owner of the ossuary inscribed on the side were the words 'James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus.' It was heralded as the first physical evidence of the existence of Jesus Christ and caused a worldwide sensation. It was displayed for the general public in Canada in the royal Ontario museum, and the exhibit received almost 100,000 visitors. And strangely, the owner was Oded Golan.

When police searched Golan's apartment they found a hidden workshop filled with tools and half made artifacts. There were also boxes of soil that could be used in a fake patina. But what was most suspicious were the artifacts. Some were in the early stages of preparation, like this casting for a bronze statue. And some appeared finished, like these royal seals, or bullae. Boaz Gaon:

Collectors around the world had paid thousands of dollars for supposedly ancient seals, painted pottery shards and other artifacts that came through Oded Golan's associates. Dozens of these items have now been examined by professor Goren, and ALL have been revealed to be forgeries.

Authorities are aware that artifacts made by the Oded Golan forgers are now being displayed in leading museums around the world.

[ Do you think the museum owners who became aware that Golan was a mass producer of forgeries, handed their items over to the authorities or even destroyed them?]

Boaz Gaon artifacts are currently shown in Israel, in London, in new York, in Paris ...

Everything which came to the market in the last 20 years or so, things which did not come from an excavation, should be considered a fake unless otherwise proven.

=============================

And how trust worthy are things found in excavations? Read the accounts of Parry who claimed his smuggled "artifacts" came out of excavations.

But what about wall paintings? How hard would it be to re-write history by simply adding information to ancient wall paintings? Has it been done and how could it be proven?

I have been told there are images now in the tombs of ancient Egypt that never existed before. If so how did they get there?

When I was told this story, I put it in the bucket with myths, but I also filed it with keep it in the back of your mind.

People have been looking at these walls for centuries and after 1850, photography was developed.

There has been a chain of magazines, archeology associations who have photographed those walls over the centuries.

There would only be two ways I could think of to verify a forgery in a wall painting:

1 Test the paint of the supposed forged area

2 Look at very early photographs of those walls and see if there is any thing there now that did not exist in earlier times.

=============================

WHEN SHOULD FORGERY BE SUSPECTED

After antiques became valuable. The beginning period being after the 1900s. The frenzy period was after the tomb of King Tut was found.

WHAT SHOULD BE SUSPECT OF FORGERY

* Every thing that can be physically carried by any one to a dig.

* Every thing that has been brought out of Egypt with out an antique permit to leave the country.

Unlike "Solomon's Tablet", 99.999% of all "artifacts" are never tested.

Any one who evokes the title of professor, archeologist, Egyptologist can say, look at what I found and by the virtue of their title alone, the piece is deemed an authentic ancient artifact.

Those who call themselves professor, archeologist, Egyptologist, have been found to be forgers and liars. If there is profit to be made titles are a moot point. Only by actual scientist can items be identified as fakes and fakes that can be made identical with actual antiques, become authentic antiques themselves.

Forgeries are not only made for profit, they can also be used in religious or political propaganda. i.e. In the example of the James Ossuary, when it first appeared, Christians around the world cried, Ah Ha, proof that Jesus existed. When it was found that it came from the forger Oded Golan, now there are web pages of 'Jews' who laugh and say, tee hee, proof that Jesus was a fake.

"Solomon's Tablet" followed the same kind of wishful thinking. 'Jews' around the world wanted to believe there was actual proof that Solomon's temple existed, so Oden Golan, forged the proof that would fill his pockets.

http://www.crystalinks.com/wariraq03.html

5,660,000 web pages for antique forger.

zendz

HYK-Tracing-artifacts-by-likeness

2009-08-01T21:48:00.000-07:00

HYK-Tracing-artifacts-by-likeness

ONLY in the case of major pharaohs are there multiple images that look similar. When the general population created art or objects they were an array of configurations.

In the time the ancient Egyptians hung out, the industrial revolution did not exist.

They did not use molds to reproduce very close copies of things they made.

The world takes this image to be the face of Nefertiti, but they neglect to consider that this piece was not found protected in a tomb, but it was buried in the earth and exposed to the elements for centuries.. and then the German Egyptologist "restored it".

Is this brown Nefertiti the same woman as the German Nefertiti?

Henry Ford did not yet promote the assembly line. People did not make standardized products.

There was not any TV's, manuals on how to produce products. The general population all had their own method of creating things.

The same person would not make identical copies of their own products.

Hand made products differed from one to another.

Nefertiti is one of the most famous figures in history and yet the Egyptians who lived centuries BC could not come up with a similar image?

I have collected dozens of statues or paintings that are supposed to be Nefertiti and NONE of them are similar. In the very same location there are multiple images of Nefertiti and they look nothing like each other.

"Egyptologist/experts" would have you believe because products are found that have similar designs, that means were made by the same population? Ok, so when objects of similar design are found in Egypt and Canaan, that means populations of Egyptians migrated to Canaan and brought their technology? Oh, I see, with out any evidence, they make up their own chain of events to fit their story?

Here we have a geometric design of Native Americans from the early 1900s and because we see this design later in the German symbol, that must mean the Native Americans migrated to Germany and the Nazis adopted the symbol as their swastika?

With endless millions of people, geometric patterns will be repeated with out end, by people who never saw the designs in the first place.

As for Egyptians migrating to Egypt and taking their technology, of course there were Egyptians who migrated to other lands outside of Egypt.

The "swastika" was also found in Asia according to PBS. (Also on another documentary the Vikings used the same geometric design.

ONLY if that particular design/product existed in one area and NOT in another, would it be probable one population produced it and other did not... but when both land areas have similar designs / products, it would be a flip of the coin.

Art / products that are subject to the creative imagination of the maker will end in a vast array of different and similar designs. No ancient product can be identified by it's geometric design, UNLESS that design exists no where else.

zendz

HYK-Musical-truth

2009-08-01T15:12:00.000-07:00

HYK-Musical-truth

After a person offering text from ancient Egypt in their assertion that the Hyksos ruled Egypt, I looked at the text and displayed by their own text, the Egyptians wrote that their Egyptian King ruled lower and upper Egypt.

=============================

Ahmose son of Ebana, - autobiography

Ahmose "I grew up in the town of Nekheb, my father being a soldier of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt...

=============================

* There may have been --> Foreign rulers who raided northern Egypt. They may have been rulers where they came from, but they were NEVER identified as Egyptian rulers.

* There IS text that the Egyptians were in great conflicts and some of their enemy are identified.

* NEVER IN ANY HIEROGLYPHIC CONTEXT, is any information about any cities that the Hyksos ruled.. BUT

* There is actual hieroglyphic information that specifically states there was an Egyptian king ruling over southern and northern Egypt (upper/lower)

=============================

So after I show them by the very text they presented, it that text reveals an Egyptian was ruler of ALL Egypt, here is their tactic:

///

Response: "Could the claim that an 'Egyptian' ruled northern Egypt (I assume you mean the father of ahmose) not simply be a political ploy? - like the king of England declaring himself king of Ireland or Scotland in an attempt to take control, or take back control (depending upon viewpoint) of a territory?

=============================

These people pride themselves on being scholars, Egyptologist duh, let me see how this works:

They use the text OF the Egyptians as evidence that the Hyksos ruled (when there is no specific text of that statement)

But

When the Egyptian text specifically does prove that an Egyptian king ruled the north and the south.. all of Egypt...

THE EGYPTIANS WERE LYING, IT WAS A POLITICAL PLOY

It is the musical truth where Egyptians are giving actual facts... when it serves their purpose and when the words of the Egyptians expose their myth, it was because the Egyptians were lying !!!

=============================

Scholars/Egyptologist use the text all the time to make their case or they use it when it fits their purpose and call it a lie when that text proves them wrong?

* If you will take text in which there is no way to ever cross examine the writers.

* If you are going to present that text as truth, then all of it is truth.

* If you see the reports of any one about an event that took place 100 years before they were born, it can be nothing but hearsay.

* If any one repeats hearsay and the original text had never been seen by any living man, that hearsay is nothing other than a myth.. (like Robin Hood or Sir Lancelot, any myth could be true, but it could just as easy be a concoction)

* Scientist, Archeologist to not present figments of their imagination/myth as some thing that actually happened.

* ONLY witnesses that were present IN THE TIME events were taking place, recorded those events and those original text exist, it is only those writers that could possibly have the story straight.

"Scholars, archeologist, Egyptologist.. " any one who blabs these titles and plays musical truth, do earn a Dr degree.. Drs of BS.

=============================

Ahmose "I grew up in the town of Nekheb, my father being a soldier of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt... So if Amose was lying about an Egyptian king ruling all of Egypt, flush ALL of the words of Ahmose and don't use it to pretend to have some ancient truths.

The King in the context is of course an Egyptian king, who ruled all of Egypt by the words of Ahmose.

zendz

HYK-Khnumhotep-tomb

2009-07-31T09:32:00.000-07:00

HYK-Khnumhotep-tomb

In the tomb of a nobleman (Khnumhotep) who lived in the 12th dynasty, the image of people (looks like farmers) has a symbol above it.

According to this particular web page, the 12th dynasty was around 1800 BC

According to the Hyksos story, Ahmose drove them out drove them out around 1600 BC.

Depending which "expert's" web page you read, the Hyksos were there between 100 and 500 years.

Hmmm, looks like that symbol is above a goat. Could that be the Hyksos ruler?

If they are all rulers, who gets to be their subjects, the livestock?

Any these "Hyksos rulers" look like a bunch of farmers to me.

Wouldn't it be great if some 'expert' actually looked at all the hieroglyphs on that wall to see what the Egyptian authors had to say?

zendz

HYK-Egyptian-words

2009-07-31T07:29:00.000-07:00

HYK-Egyptian-words

The Egyptians referred to them ( Hyksos) as the Heqa-khasut.

The term heqa-khasut is mentioned on scarabs and inscriptions.

///

A scarab had the function of a rubber stamp. It was a means to leave an imprint of a signature or logo.

a) Why would the Egyptians make scarabs for foreigners who invaded them?

b) If these invaders could write their own text, why is it only Egyptian text we find about a people identified as 'Hyksos'?

=============================

The Egyptians identified THEM as Heqa-khasut.

Americans identified THEM as rebels

Americans identified THEM as Republicans

Americans identified THEM as criminals.

c) Unless THEM is identified as foreigners, Them could be any subset of Egyptians.

=============================

d) If the word Hyksos simply translates to foreigners, then in the text of Egyptian accounts with others ... Hittites, Syrians, Akkadians, Babylonians, Greeks, Romans it would be likely for the word Heqa-khasut applied to all foreigners.

=============================

e) If the word heqa-khasut means rif-raf, undesirables, criminals then it does not identify any people from other lands.

=============================

Khnumhotep II. A nobleman who lived in Dynasty 12

"In the tomb of Khnumhotep II at Beni Hasan is a large wall painting showing Asiatics migrating into Egypt"

///

There are dozens of not hundreds of images of people and animals on the walls of Egyptian tombs.

f) Are we to assume in every image of people and animals on the walls of the tombs that is a picture of people of people migrating to Egypt?

g) Does a hieroglyph in this image state this is a migration to Egypt, or is this a concoction of an "Egyptologist" to embellish their story?

... Duh what would the word "Asiatic" mean to Egyptians? On a map outline the people included in "Asiatics". The Egyptians could have no concept of such a word, it could only mean NON Egyptian.

=============================

"The tomb of Khnumhotep II, The term heqa-khasut is in the inscription." I've circled in red the hieroglyphic spelling of HKA-xAswt, What the Greeks would later render as "Hyksos." The term simply means "foreign rulers," which is what the Egyptians called them"

///

This image has an assembly of people with livestock

h) If the caption says foreign rulers, were all of them rulers?

i) If the caption says foreign ruler, then which one of them is THE ruler?

=============================

"Khnumhotep's servants weighing the grain" is one caption I have found..

j) Instead of picking out one symbol, how about some one listing every symbol, it's meaning and the translation of all hieroglyphs on that wall?

=============================

It is enlightening to look at the hours of WW2 films and see the trenches of naked 'Jews' with their lily white skin and have them assert:

* They are descendants of the Israelites

* The images in the tomb of Khnumhotep were Israelites.

... and while the European 'Jews' are as white as all other Europeans, the painting said to be Israelites in the tomb of Khnumhotep are NON whites... the same as the other Egyptians painted in that tomb.

White skin Europeans calling themselves Jews

descendants of a non white race?

"Israelites depicted in the tomb of Khnumhotep"

zendz

HYK-Censor-Anonymous

2009-07-30T19:06:00.000-07:00

HYK-Censor-Anonymous
While the moderator closed the discussion when I crossed examined "proofs" they offered for evidence, I will not do the same.
This blog is set up to collect all rebuttals from all sides so they do not get all mixed together, but any one who would like to respond in an UN-censored forum, can do so by joining jews-uncensored-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
I understand the "can't we all just get along" mentality to keep groupies happy.
In this Yahoo group any topics dealing with Israel/Hyksos/Egypt will NEVER be closed.
Any one is welcome to join under any e-mail and post away as long as they keep on topic.
=============================
(Their full comment here)
I am one of the Moderators of the afore-mentioned Egyptian discussion board. Let's set the record straight. A number of us cited specific, academic evidence to corroborate the reality of the Hyksos period, and in fact the debate ran on to several pages where we detailed the evidence that even moderate research can produce. Throughout it you deliberately ignored or dismissed our posts, and failed to defend his position in any manner that would stand up to scrutiny.
My fellow Moderator closed the thread for this reason, and for the negative atmosphere it was absorbing. It did not live up to the scholastic strictures of our discussion board. That's the harsh truth.
Now that I've written this comment for this blog, let's see if you are big enough to leave it in place.
=============================
I will post a reply to this here in the blog, but if they wish to continue, they will have to bring it to Jews-uncensored under any e-mail identity they chose.
=============================
A number of us cited specific, academic evidence.
///
Thank you for your input and I will now take every bit of your "evidence" and address it.
=============================
we detailed the evidence that even moderate research can produce
///
It is only your group who had a clue of where any of these accounts come from, now I will go to the horses mouth.. the physical artifacts/text from ancient Egypt, and cross examine it.
=============================
you deliberately ignored or dismissed our posts
///
I am not the topic, I will take it line for line and any reader can determine what you offered that I ignored or dismissed.
=============================
It did not live up to the scholastic strictures of our discussion board
///
This is what is known as the blanket response, it covers every thing with out addressing any thing.
"scholastic " as in scholar... I do not look for titles, but for evidence. I think you have listed the Egyptian artifacts/text you use to arrive at your theory.
Personalities, spin words, titles are fluff, you have cited some of your text which I got to address, such as the tablet used to show the Hyksos ruled the north when the context of your quote revealed it was an Egyptian king and associates that ruled the area.
I got to point out from your own reference by the Egyptians that the Egyptians stated their king ruled the north and south of Egypt.
I will address all you wrote.
=============================
Now that I've written this comment for this blog, let's see if you are big enough to leave it in place.
///
Your comment will remain along with the challenge for you and your experts to respond in a forum where no censorship is allowed ... and personal remarks are flushed.
Thank you..
All who have some thing to say in open debate can do so by joining the uncensored group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jews-Uncensored/
This is the group of "Anonymous" who closed the discussion and left this post here http://forum.egyptiandreams.co.uk/ , While they closed the discussion, members there are the ONLY people I have found who actually knew any thing about the actual sources of the Hyksos story.
If you do not wish to discuss/debate this issue in public, but don't want to come back here to see my latest assertions, you can join this yahoo group EncEg_Hyksos-subscribe@yahoogroups.com . When ever I update the blog with new information, members who belong to this group will get a copy of my latest remarks in their in box.
If images do not appear, let me know so I can try to correct the problem.

zendz

HYK-Hykso-inventers-vanish

2009-07-30T18:13:00.000-07:00

HYK-Hykso-inventers-vanish

It looks like Mesopotamia is a label that loosely defines the north east areas of the lands mentioned in the bible. Iraq appears to be the hub.

I do not know the specifics, but I am guessing that the Egyptians had conflicts with multiple tribes from Mesopotamia before the Hyksos accounts.

I would guess the Egyptians had conflicts with multiple tribes in Canaan... and

I would guess that the Egyptians traveled to these other lands in Mesopotamia and Canaan long before the Hyksos accounts.

Camel routes, Conflict, travel, trade of Egyptians with multiple lands to the north for centuries before the accounts of the Hyksos.

Is this guess based on facts you are aware of ?

What known interaction did Egyptians have with empires/lands to the north before the accounts of the Hyksos began?

=============================

Back in the days BC, there were no patent offices. When any one saw an idea or invention, they could copy it and sell any gadget.

=============================

Archaeological discoveries have upset theories of bronze technologies. It was believed bronze originated in the Middle East, but discoveries near Ban Chiang, Thailand it existed early as 4500 bc.

This preceded the working of bronze in the Middle East by several hundred years. Bronze objects have been found in Asia Minor that date from before 3000 BC.

///

Hmmm, is it possible that technology be discovered in different parts of the world and it could not be known where any population got their own ideas?

Bronze objects were found in Asia Minor before 3000 BC.

The Hyksos accounts did not start until around 1700 BC. If the Egyptians had been interacting with any populations outside of Egypt in the previous 1300 years, they could have seen bronze making and brought it back to Egypt with them.

=============================

With the Egyptians interacting with tribes, nations, people from Mesopotamia for centuries, if others had these innovations centuries before, what makes any one believe the Egyptians got their ideas from these johnny come latelys?

Before any one could conclude the "Hyksos" invented any of these things, they better first identify who the "Hyksos" were, then go to that area of (where they came from) and provide evidence those things are found there first.

It appears these Hyksos invented all of the innovations in Asia, the Egyptians copied them, then when the Hyksos were driven out, they escaped in their flying saucer because none of the "expert Egyptologist" have any evidence where they vanished to.

zendz

1	2	3
Check if they are ->	Asians	Semites
Afghanistan
Azzerijan
Bahrain
Cambodia
China
Egypt
Georgia
India
Iran
Iraq
Japan
Jordan
Korea
Lebanon
Mongolia
Myanmar
Oman
Pakistan
Palestine
Qatar
Syria
Tajikistan
Thailand
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Ubekistan
United Arab Emirates
Viet Nam
Yemen